Einstein was using C as velocity and at RELATIVISTIC velocities you don't divide by 2. The reason is that at the speed of light, "C", mass is added by the velocity involved so you don't have to divide by 2 to get the energy involved. At our puny 3-5000 fps you have to divide by 2 because we are dealing with mass of the bullet more or less at rest (well below relativistic velocities).
Besides, Einstein was talking about total energy in an atomic structure and not just the kinetic energy. The only time you can get 100% conversion is by joining equal particles of matter and anti-matter then E does equal mc^2.
Top it all off there is nothing but the energy (mostly in gamma radiation) left.

tlo7mm wrote:

right now I have a box of lightweight cast plinkers but I am going to get some heavy bullets for hunting to load. I am also thinking I am going to look into getting molds and all the stuff to make my own cast bullets for the 30-30.

tlo7mm,I shoot cast sub-sonic,med velocity and gas check hunting bullets in my Sav. 170 30-30 pump gun with great success. My Sav. has standard rifling as apposed to the Micro groove rifling found in the Marlin rifles. Both will shot cast just fine but the Micro groove bores require a little more attention to details to get the best accuracy.

First most 30-30 rifles have large throats there designed that way to take a large variety of factory 30-30 jacketed ammo so using a large cast bullet in .311 dia. is not all that uncommon I size all my 30-30 cast bullets to .311 and they feed and chamber like a champ.

I cast all my own 30-30 bullets,since I cast all my other pistol and rifle bullets adding a couple molds to use in my 30-30 wasn't that big of a deal. If you want to cast your own there are a variety of molds designed with and without a gas check shank for the 30-30 as well as other calibers that can be size and used in the 30-30 mold prices range form the mid $20's up to $150 for a custom made mold.

I cast all my 30-30 bullets with two Lee molds on is the Lee 32 cal. .314 90 gr. tumble lube SWC,I size the bullet at .314 for using in my SKS and Mosin rifles and size it to .311 for use in my 30-30 and 300 Sav. Bullets are cast form 3 to 1 or 50/50 Lead /WW alloy either works fine since you want be pushing the bullet past 1K fps. With the 90 gr. SWC in the 30-30 I use 3.0 to 3.5 grs. of Alliant Bullseye this is not a max. load but shoots the most accurately plus you avoid leading issues if you cast the bullet from pure lead. You can use the same bullet powder combination in the 06 or 308 as well with equal results. I size all my bullets and apply gas checks as need with Lee push through sizers.

For the heavier 170 gr. gas check bullet I just cast the bullet from straight WW alloy. It has the standard grease grooves found on your commercial cast bullets but for plinking and small game ammo I just tumble lube the bullet size to .311 dia. and leave the gas check off for economical reasons and it doesn't affect accuracy. I use 7.0 grs. of Alliant Red Dot for a MV of 1250 fps.

There are many other powders that are listed in the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual that will give equal results in the 1100 to 1300 fps. range. I only apply the gas check when my load get in the upper 1400 fps. range and in my 30-30 cast hunting loads that run about 2K fps.

All groups were shot at 50 yds. with iron sight as that is as far as I can shoot in my back yard range.



Lee 170 gr. TL RNFP no gas check 7.0 grs. RD load.

Excellent information res45. In my neck of the woods there are a few old 30-30 94's around going for good prices. I have been thinking about getting one for cowboy action. Those plinking loads with casts look like the ticket. I just started casting for revolver and semi pistol. It sure adds to the reloading experience.

MacD, just FYI, around here CAS match rifles are limited to handgun calibers. Rifle calibers can be used in some of the side matches though.

In our part of the world the 30/30 Win is often a class on its own, deviding these matches in bigger than and smaller than. And I would say: "go for it!" And you will soon love this caliber. It's a caliber that gets a lot of things done and recoil is that low that you can keep your target in the optics and see the where and how of the impact. And when you don't like these ugly optics on such nice machinery, just put an extra peephole in front of your eyes and be surprised about the accuracy of your shooting.

30/30s secound hand cost more than a new bolt over here as pighunters just love them.

The local group uses 30-30 for timed snap shooting at flip targets. They allow only lever actions based upon historical rifles. I think you are right though that this is a side match and not part of the SASS/CAS sanctioned events although many of the rifles are 44's, 45's and an assortment of other pistol calibers. I have a line on a Lightning in 45 colt but am not sure whether to just go with a lever action. We don't have a club set up yet so are in the development stage.

A Lightning could be fun! I would recommend keeping all your guns the same caliber. For a short while I shot .45 Colt revolvers and a .44 Mag lever action, because I already had the .44. All loads were pretty mild handloads. I got the ammo switched once trying to hurry up and load the guns before a stage. Luckily I tried to put a .45 in the .44 so it wouldn't feed. I'm not sure what would have happened if I'd switched them the other way around!

But usually a lever action likes a load with a few grains powder less than a revolver in the same caliber, how to keep them apart?
And there is little chance you exchange a 30/30 Win for a .357 or a .44 Rem
But what ever: in my opinion it will never make you angry when you own a 30/30 Win too much. The 30/30 Win and the 45 Government should be found in every gunowner's closet.
And now you also have another caliber to look for

and when you want to follow Pumpkin's advice: there are also revolvers in 45-70

man up and get 44/40 in both. lol
how to keep loads separate could be as simple as 2 different types of projectile.

Hm...good idea Elvis...in fact, if my memory serves me correct, the 44.40 was one of the original cowboy calibres in both pistol and rifle.

Cheers, Vince

Not correct Vince, I think the 44-40 was originally a rather weak rifle cartridge that got a boost when Colt made a strong revolver in that same caliber. Both good for defence but very poor for hunting.

Nowadays I think you're better of with the .44 RM.

Yup...agree totally mate...the 44.40 was originally a black powder cartridge and is only a mediocre hunting round. However, it does have the reputation of being the #2 deer killing round of all time, just behind the 30.30 (.30 WCF).

44.40 Winchester

It was a calibre designed for both firearms though...but then again, although not by Winchester, but by Remington and Marlin. Winchester designed as the standard round for use in its Winchester 1873 rifle.

Cheers, Vince

now if JT Edson had his facts right.... the 44/40 was used in the dragoon colt pistol and the yellowboy henry rifle of the same era was 44/28.
I wouldnt feel undergunned using one for deer in the bush/forest where ranges are under 75yrds and mostly under 50.

The Colt Dragoon was a cap & ball revolver, introduced in 1848. The Henry was a rimfire introduced in 1860. The .44 Winchester Center Fire/ .44-40 was introduced in the Winchester 1873 in 1873. Colt introduced their Frontier Six Shooter, chambered in .44 WCF, in 1877.

I haven't tried it myself but I gather that the .44-40, with its slightly bottle necked case, can be a bit trickier to reload than a straight cased cartridge.