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MacD Super Member
Joined: Apr 08, 2011 Posts: 1052 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:07 am Post subject: Melting Lead for Ingots |
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Okay I have spent hours reading and finally took the big step and melted and poured 45 pounds of ingots. I used sawdust for my flux followed by paraffin wax. I get all the black crap out but there is still a dull gray/silver scum on top of the melt that I can't stir back in. Is this tin oxide and should I be concerned that I am losing this from my wheel weight metal? I know the answer is buried in the Castboolits sight but I can't find it. I hate to make my first post there be a dumb question.
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Aloysius Super Member
Joined: Nov 03, 2009 Posts: 2440 Location: B., Belgium
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Melting Lead for Ingots |
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when you flux with paraffin wax or a piece of candle, you have to stir with your spoon to get as much air in mixture as possible. The grey stuff you're loosing is in my opinion Sb antimony. The more Sb, the harder the bullet. But you cannot mix Sb and Pb lead. You need Sn tin to get the Sb in the mixture.
Looks like chinese perhaps, but it's easy: while your wax is burning, shovel some mixuture out the melting pot with a spoon and let it drop in. When you use a normal spoon, put some wood on the handle or you'll burn your fingers
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MacD Super Member
Joined: Apr 08, 2011 Posts: 1052 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Melting Lead for Ingots |
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Thanks Aloysius. Would adding a small length of 95% tin solder help keep the antimony in the alloy ............ Aloy?
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Ominivision1 Super Member
Joined: Sep 20, 2010 Posts: 2984 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Melting Lead for Ingots |
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That dull scum you are seeing at the surface is antimony, you need to add some tin to the mix as most wheel weights have less than .6% tin. If I don't have tin to add to the mix I use 9 lbs wheel weights to 1 lb. 50/50 solder. this will give a hardness equivalent to Lymam #2. I use this for rifle and handgun bullets and have no leading problems.
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Aloysius Super Member
Joined: Nov 03, 2009 Posts: 2440 Location: B., Belgium
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Melting Lead for Ingots |
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Omini is fast and gives all you need to know in far better English than mine.
I only want to add: when you're only making bullets for handguns you don't have to botter that hard about hardness. When you dilute that Lyman #2 or linotype with pure lead on a 50/50 base, you still will have good bullets, you avoid some problems with antimony, it casts easier and cheaper.
When you want to cast fire a rifle: try to make them as hard as possible and use a gasscheck.
And for handguns: don't use lead bullets for magnum velocities because you'll loose accuraty and will get lots of cleaning problems to remove the stripped lead in the barrel.
When you have the choise for powder, take the fast burning one to start and load at low velocities.
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fnuser Super Member
Joined: Dec 23, 2008 Posts: 914 Location: S.W. Missouri, U.S.A.
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Melting Lead for Ingots |
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I always just stir that gray stuff back in as best I can and my cast bullets for .405 Win always work pretty good. I use the same sawdust and parrafin combo. I found an ingot of high speed babbet at a farm sale that I throw in for that. It is pretty close to pewter. I know we can split hairs trying to do our best but sometimes I need to be reminded when I arrive at the goal.
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MacD Super Member
Joined: Apr 08, 2011 Posts: 1052 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Melting Lead for Ingots |
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Thanks Omni and Aloysius. I'll have to try and find a reasonable source of tin. Solder is pretty expensive and no linotype or such around here. I intend to cast only for 9mm and keep around 1000 fps or lower. I was have read a bit about heat treating cast bullets either by quenching when casting or reheating in an oven and quenching.
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fnuser Super Member
Joined: Dec 23, 2008 Posts: 914 Location: S.W. Missouri, U.S.A.
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Melting Lead for Ingots |
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I drop mine in a towel in a 5gallon bucket of water out of the mold. the towel kinda floats, and prevents splashing. You don't want any drops of water getting on your casting equipment! including moulds, dippers etc.
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TRBLSHTR Super Member
Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 1071 Location: Lower 48's-left coast(near portlandia)
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fnuser Super Member
Joined: Dec 23, 2008 Posts: 914 Location: S.W. Missouri, U.S.A.
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Melting Lead for Ingots |
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Wonder Wads
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gelandangan Super Member
Joined: May 07, 2006 Posts: 6400 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Melting Lead for Ingots |
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If you got metallic scum that floats on top of your lead alloy even after you flux, you may want to increase the temperature a tad.
There is a window of temperature where all the alloy will mix well.
Another way to increase the temperature (temporarily) is to drop in a bit of wax to the molten alloy and light it up.
I also drop my cast into a bucket of water to harden.
Like fnuser I also use a blanket to arrest the boolit fall.
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15723 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Ominivision1 Super Member
Joined: Sep 20, 2010 Posts: 2984 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:49 am Post subject: Re: Melting Lead for Ingots |
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Here is a link to a site that goes thru the abc's of casting bullets, also there is at the top left of the page to download a pdf copy. www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Bo...ntents.htm
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MacD Super Member
Joined: Apr 08, 2011 Posts: 1052 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:17 am Post subject: Re: Melting Lead for Ingots |
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Thanks again. I believe temperature is my problem. I will order a thermometer today.
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15723 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Melting Lead for Ingots |
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When we are casting shot, we work on 650 F(that is with a 50/50 Lyman #2/pure lead mix). The drippers on the shot maker work well at that temp. I would imagine that the same temp wouldn't be too far off optimum when casting bullets mate.
The main signs I use for judging temp when casting bullets though is the length of time it takes the sprue to set, and the look of the bullet when it comes out of the mold. The sprue should set within a few seconds when the mold is at the right temp. If the cast bullet is wrinkled then the temp is too cool, and if it has a "sparkly" frosted look to it, then the temp is too high.
It doesn't take much to lower the temp of the mold...holding the mold open, away from the heat, for around 10 seconds is usually sufficient to lower the temp enough for a few more "throws". When warming the mold I open it and set it over the top of the melting pot while the alloy melts. NEVER heat the mold by putting it into the alloy in the melting pot.
Cheers, Vince
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