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Loke Member
Joined: May 13, 2013 Posts: 207
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Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: Terrorism Alive and Well in Canada Two Soldiers Killed |
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The part of this that sickens me the most, Was that Cpl. Cirillo was killed while on guard duty while carrying an unloaded rifle. Yes, he was issued a rifle, but no ammunition. Some how that makes sense to senior military officers. Yet another example of a hero killed by the stupidity of their commanders.
It reminds me of the Marine veteran that was teaching school in Reno, Nevada, that was killed last year by a student with a shotgun. Because Nevada doesn't allow a concealed weapon permit holder to carry a gun on school property, a decorated military veteran (who is more qualified to carry a weapon to defend his students from a terroristic attack?) was not allowed to protect himself and the students at the school from a punk kid who wanted some attention? I just can't find the logic in this.
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9259 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:31 am Post subject: Re: Terrorism Alive and Well in Canada Two Soldiers Killed |
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I couldnt agree more.
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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MacD Super Member
Joined: Apr 08, 2011 Posts: 1052 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Terrorism Alive and Well in Canada Two Soldiers Killed |
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We won't allow fear turn this country into an armed camp and any politician who tries will find out Canadians won't support such a move. No they didn't have live ammo and nor should they have had or ever will. If can't understand why then you don't understand Canadian values. The nation was shocked by the events of last week precisely because of those values.
_________________ La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle) |
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9259 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Terrorism Alive and Well in Canada Two Soldiers Killed |
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I have to disagree MacD.......if you cant trust your constabulary and military with live ammo well you better change the job discription to the "unarmed forces"
tieing their hands behind their backs is just as bad as painting a big flouro orange target on them, the crims,thugs and rag headed terrorists dont give a shite about the rules and asking these guys to deal with them unarmed is simply not fair...just wait..one day very soon they will take govt to employment court for putting them in dangerous situation without tools to deal with it.......any civilian contractor could and would sue for millions and win
rant over
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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Pumpkinslinger Super Member
Joined: Sep 22, 2007 Posts: 5002 Location: NC foothills
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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Terrorism Alive and Well in Canada Two Soldiers Killed |
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I think you need to take into consideration the other side's "values"...
_________________ Mike
"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15723 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Terrorism Alive and Well in Canada Two Soldiers Killed |
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Values are important, but so is the lives and well being of soldiers put on Guard Duty at places such as War Memorials, a duty that is purely ceremonial. As Punkin said...consider the values, or lack thereof, of those that would bring harm to those on Guard.
I have been in the situation where I carried a rifle, but no ammunition, as a guard...not good. I remember many many years ago, an Australian Infantry Battalion returned from Vietnam and exercised it's right to Freedom of the City (often extended to military units). Protestors were throwing red paint at the soldiers and a group made a move to throw paint on the Battalion Colours...a big mistake as they quickly learned. The order was given to Fix Bayonets! Nobody was injured, but it demonstrated the values of the soldiers.
_________________ Cheers, Vince
Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)
Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.
"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Last edited by Vince on Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9259 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Terrorism Alive and Well in Canada Two Soldiers Killed |
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due consideration given..I value the life/well being of a copper or soldier well above that of a law breaking scumbag .
I value the safety of that same copper/soldier above any insecurity the koombuyah brigade may "feel" by having said persons carrying live rounds
I value the persons/places they are asked to protect from said scumbags far far above any percieved insecurities felt by others who should know better and indeed unless they have something to hide or are planning on lawbreaking these simple measures will have ZERO effect on Joe Public.
I mean come on how do you KNOW that the red coats standing at Lizzies front door ARENT locked n loaded right now??? and so what if they are???....If a soldier is going to be carrying a firearm without ammunition you might as well take it off them and issue a pitchfork instead..they would be safer.
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15723 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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1895ss Super Member
Joined: Jul 21, 2005 Posts: 2612 Location: Not Here...!!
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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Terrorism Alive and Well in Canada Two Soldiers Killed |
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I agree with you Elvis... if you're going to have a firearm, while on guard, you might as well have ammunition... !! Only makes sense to have both or nothing at all...!
_________________ A cruel truth is much more desirable than a really nice lie.
'Tis far better to walk alone than to follow a crowd or an a**hole going the wrong way. |
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dhc4ever Super Member
Joined: May 26, 2011 Posts: 2944 Location: Ipswich, Queensland Australia
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Terrorism Alive and Well in Canada Two Soldiers Killed |
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Live ammo on a cerimonial guard?
Not happening in a commonwealth country without an act of parliment and a risk assessment/hand wringing session worthy of the UN at it most useless.
There is a destinct separation of powers between the civilian forces and military for a reason and it is generally only in times of disaster, war or olympic games/g20 type senerios that the military is equipped with ammo in the public domain. Possibly because the govt is worried about coups ( the romans started this, not allowing any legion into the area of Rome for this reason).
There is also the legal side of shooting someone, soldiers fighting in northern Ireland have been hung out to dry for shooting someone while on patrol, god help the poor digger in the middle of that legal/media shite fight if it happens on the peaceful streets of (insert name of western countries city of choice here).
_________________ Pete
Dont do anything you wont like explaining to the paramedics.............. |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15723 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9259 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: Terrorism Alive and Well in Canada Two Soldiers Killed |
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if a soldier took employer to employment court...well it could happen.
Im surprised a police officer hasnt done it over here.
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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MacD Super Member
Joined: Apr 08, 2011 Posts: 1052 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:10 am Post subject: Re: Terrorism Alive and Well in Canada Two Soldiers Killed |
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Respect everyones opinion. I have carried arms in an official capacity both in public and while boarding vessels. I would never even consider shooting in a crowded downtown area. My own defence wouldn't justify the death of an innocent bystander.
This video is illustrative of the values I believe will make a better world. I grew up in Hamilton and it is a lunchbox city with a history of immigration from around the world.
www.cbc.ca/news/canada...-1.2816837
_________________ La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle) |
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Bushmaster Super Member
Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 11394 Location: Ava, Missouri
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Terrorism Alive and Well in Canada Two Soldiers Killed |
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In the case of the Canadian soldier. I doubt very much if it would have helped if he had ammunition. He was shot in the back by a sickened coward.
_________________ I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...
DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote... |
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inthedark Super Member
Joined: Jan 31, 2011 Posts: 917 Location: Ontario
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Terrorism Alive and Well in Canada Two Soldiers Killed |
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MacD wrote: |
In the Dark. A bad day for all of us. You are right, both were recent converts to Islam. However not all people who carry out acts of terror are Muslim and I am sure you aren't suggesting all Muslims are terrorists. Currently we are experiencing the fallout of a destabilized Middle East where the predominate faith is Islam. If this situation was occuring in the Far East it might be Hindu or Buddist radicals using terror and inciting people in our cities with mental health or other personal issues to carry out acts of terror.
The actions of a few don't reflect the values of the many. |
You are absolutely right not all Muslims are terrorists nor any other faith. I am a Lutheran LCC (Missouri Synod for our American brothers and sisters) and I hate ANYONE who attacks my country and the western world nations who believe in Freedom and Justice. I hate to go Old Testament but sometimes I wonder what would the world be like if we sank to their level and committed terrorist acts on Muslims, Budhists, Hindus. But then we wouldn't be TRUE Christians would we.
_________________ Chimo
Ron
War is sweet to those who have no experience of it, but the experienced man trembles exceedingly at heart on its approach - Pindar 518-438 BC
Be Copy now of Men of Grosser Blood and TEACH THEM HOW TO WAR |
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