Coyote_Hunter_ wrote:

I would suggest that for the average hunter there is no practical difference between a .30-06, a .308 or a .308 Short.

Except, for another new powder development that would indeed make a "short" do as well and sometimes better than a long. I consider myself an average, run of the mills hunter, and see a big advantage in weight to recoil ratios, and as i get older the few pounds less in a short makes the world of difference.

I guess I just dont jump on every band wagon that comes along. "To each his own" Go for it, and good luck!

I really don't think it's about the proverbial "band wagon", and yes to each his/her own but i like to think as being well rounded in expierence and knowledge. Almost like the time i shot a 375JDJ one handed that's something i will remember for a LONG time

Yes, I would remember that too! But Why reinvent the apple? the 30/06, 300mag and the 308 already do what any one needs to do with a 30 caliber rifle with what ever barrel lenght or action type.

Reinvent the apple??? Considering, it has been "reinvented" several times after the 30/06 with practically every 30 caliber based round from the 300 Savage to the 308 Norma mag, the 300 H&H to the 300 Weatherby, and then some.....Many also made between the 30/06 and 308 (7.62 NATO) era and some after. (except for the 30-30 and 30-40 Krag, and any other cowboy loads i may be missing).

So, with the Rem and Win offerings in a "short magnum" i think it's about time for a conventional "non magnum" cartridge to hit the market. With todays engineering, it's very possible to create another 30 cal based on a super short action with all the capabilities of their larger cousins

I am good at getting your goat aint I? :)

It's all in good fun and a 2 way street We're all just one big....somewhat disfunctional.......Happy family here!

515034s10ring wrote:

Coyote_Hunter_ wrote: I would suggest that for the average hunter there is no practical difference between a .30-06, a .308 or a .308 Short. Except, for another new powder development that would indeed make a "short" do as well and sometimes better than a long. I consider myself an average, run of the mills hunter, and see a big advantage in weight to recoil ratios, and as i get older the few pounds less in a short makes the world of difference.

The great promise of the Shorts is efficiency – which allows Magnum velocities to be reached with less powder. Less Powder means less recoil. But then they package the Shorts in smaller, lighter rifles, which increases recoil. If one wants a .30 with low recoil, get a .30-30, shoot lighter bullets, or slow them down. There is no free lunch.

Let’s look at some specifics:

Ruger .308 M77 MKII == 7.5 pounds + 12oz scope == 8.3 pounds
Ruger M77 MKII .30-06 == 7.5 pounds + 12 oz scope == 8.3 pounds
Ruger .300 WSM == 7.0 pounds + 12 oz scope == 7.8 pounds

From Nosler 5th:
.308 Win == 168g @ 2820fps with 46g powder == 18.2 foot-pounds recoil
.30-06 == 168g @ 3002fps with 63.0g powder == 24.4 foot-pounds recoil
.300 WSM == 168g @ 3181fps with 64.5g powder == 28.5 foot-pounds recoil

Again, I’m talking about practical advantages for the average hunter – not the gun nut shooter who goes to the range as often as I do. Many people shoot a few rounds to check their rifle then head to the field to hunt. For these folks a .308 or .30-06 will do everything they need and at significantly less recoil than the WSM. Even if you put the WSM in a 7.5 pound rifle the recoil only drops to 26.8 foot-pounds.

The .308 Win load will deliver over 1500 foot-pounds of energy out past 485 yards with a Nosler Ballistic Silvertip and if zeroed for Maximum Point Blank Range for a 6” diameter target the bullet drop is less than 18” at 400 yards. That’s plenty of what’s needed even for elk.

My battery of .30’s includes a Marlin .30-30 which I regularly use to shoot clay pigeons at 200 yards, a .308 Win and a .300 Win Mag. In 24 years of hunting Colorados’ antelope, deer and elk, I can count on three fingers the number of times the .30-30 wouldn’t have been appropriate for the shots I’ve taken.

Nothing wrong with choosing a Short or Long or whatever pleases you, but where is the practical difference for the average hunter who typically shoots his game at ranges under 300 yards?

300 WEATHERBY !!