Hi everyone. I got to say that I enjoy being in this forum ALOT!! I learn heaps and It boost my confidence in shooting.

Now, I currently have two .223 REM in my gunsafe. A CZ mini-mauser and a Ruger77CR (shorted version) amongs other calibers . I bought the CZ because I want a 223 a few years ago, it shoots great and looks ok. Then when I confinced my missus to get a license, I bouhgt her the Ruger 77CR because it is short and compact and fits my missus who is only a few inches past 5 feet perfectly

Methinks, why should I have duplicate caliber? So, for a while I placed the CZ on consignment in the local gunshop. Business must be bad coz I have not yet get any offer since January.

Lately, I read about .300 Whisper, sending a heavy .308cal 240gn streamlined and long projectile at subsonic velocity, it can achieve phenomenal accuracy and do all this quietly. Apparently, this wildcat uses a necked down .223 case and require no modification on a .223 rifle but changing the barrel. Plus, my average shooting distance is 100 meters or less, which is well within the range of the 300 whisper.

So, the gear starts moving in the head and now, I am seriously considering to re barrel my CZ to 300 whisper. A quick discussion to my trusted gunsmith tells me that I require a 308 barrel (a MAB 1:8 twist ChromeMolyb costs about $250) then, because it is a wildcat and he have not the reamer for this caliber, I got to buy the reamer, and it costs another $250. Then a set of loading die for about $140. Plus $150 to chamber, and fit the barrel to my old CZ action. SO, for an investment of about $800 (about $500 USD I recond) I get a "new" gun.

Now, my questions:
1. Do you think it is a good idea?
2. I heard that the whisper is popularly used as a deer gun in the state, but by Taylor knocout figure, it have only marginally usefull score on deer. So what is right?
3. What if any is your experience with this caliber?
4. I plan to use cast projectile for this caliber, What do you recomend as to the maximum projectile weight?
5. No where I read recomends or discussed about the barrel length for this caliber. Apparently it is widely used in semiautos like AR15 (illegal in Aussie) with barrel of 10 - 14 inches, but, what length is to be used on a bolt action?
6. I also think to use swaged projectile (more dense and hard) What brand available? how much does it cost?

Plenty of question this time

TIA

Gelan

The Taylor Knockout was borne outta blastin' Dangerous Game in Africa......not very reliable on game not willing to chase you down and stomp you into a mud puddle......

Your tellin' of a hefty wad of Loot for a marginal killer.

It ain't "widely popular" as a deer round here as far as I know.........I'd hedge a bet I wouldn't want it.......

I'm more hip on near 100 grain charges behind 30 cal bullets.

Quiet killin' comes from archery tackle........never wanted to consider it important for rifle huntin'..........

Err.. let me elaborate.

By "quiet" or "silence" I mean "not as loud as a full bore .308" Here in land of OZ, we are not legally allowed to use silencer anyway.

So, what I wnat to achieve is something that used mostly to shoot pigs n goats and rarely a deer, with a pop like a 22 LR or 22 WMR.

I am not into assassin type of hunting. Although I own a compound bow, I never use it to hunt. Granted a good slingshot may do the job, but never try it either.

hi all
6.5 grendel is another viable option, however not as quiet. it is just as wildcat and accurate out to an easy 500 yds.

gelandangan wrote:

Hi everyone. I got to say that I enjoy being in this forum ALOT!! I learn heaps and It boost my confidence in shooting. Now, I currently have two .223 REM in my gunsafe. A CZ mini-mauser and a Ruger77CR (shorted version) amongs other calibers . I bought the CZ because I want a 223 a few years ago, it shoots great and looks ok. Then when I confinced my missus to get a license, I bouhgt her the Ruger 77CR because it is short and compact and fits my missus who is only a few inches past 5 feet perfectly Methinks, why should I have duplicate caliber? So, for a while I placed the CZ on consignment in the local gunshop. Business must be bad coz I have not yet get any offer since January. Lately, I read about .300 Whisper, sending a heavy .308cal 240gn streamlined and long projectile at subsonic velocity, it can achieve phenomenal accuracy and do all this quietly. Apparently, this wildcat uses a necked down .223 case and require no modification on a .223 rifle but changing the barrel. Plus, my average shooting distance is 100 meters or less, which is well within the range of the 300 whisper. So, the gear starts moving in the head and now, I am seriously considering to re barrel my CZ to 300 whisper. A quick discussion to my trusted gunsmith tells me that I require a 308 barrel (a MAB 1:8 twist ChromeMolyb costs about $250) then, because it is a wildcat and he have not the reamer for this caliber, I got to buy the reamer, and it costs another $250. Then a set of loading die for about $140. Plus $150 to chamber, and fit the barrel to my old CZ action. SO, for an investment of about $800 (about $500 USD I recond) I get a "new" gun. Now, my questions: 1. Do you think it is a good idea? 2. I heard that the whisper is popularly used as a deer gun in the state, but by Taylor knocout figure, it have only marginally usefull score on deer. So what is right? 3. What if any is your experience with this caliber? 4. I plan to use cast projectile for this caliber, What do you recomend as to the maximum projectile weight? 5. No where I read recomends or discussed about the barrel length for this caliber. Apparently it is widely used in semiautos like AR15 (illegal in Aussie) with barrel of 10 - 14 inches, but, what length is to be used on a bolt action? 6. I also think to use swaged projectile (more dense and hard) What brand available? how much does it cost? Plenty of question this time TIA Gelan

G'Day Gelan. From what you have written this sounds like a very VERY expensive conversion to a caliber that is at best marginal. For the money you have indicated above you could come very close to purchasing a new rifle and reasonable quality scope.

Who is your gunsmith? If he has given you all of the above prices I would suggest hat he is NOT doing you any favours.

My suggestion is to have a look at a .243 WIN. There are a number of manufacturers who import into Australia and they all produce a quality firearm. My person choice is the Weatherby Vanguard (which I have). Alternatively, if you are hell bent on the .308 calibre then look at buying a .308 WIN in the brand you prefer.

Reloading for both of these calibres is cheap and easy. I suspect that this is not the case with the Whisper as you will no doubt have to go through the process of case forming. Factory ammo for the .243 and .308 is also relatively cheap.

Apart from a .22 rimfire noise is always going to be a factor. Tgis is easy to overcome.....use ear plugs. You shouldn't be shooting near enough to houses etc for the noise to be a factor anyway

I would forget the idea of the Whisper. There is much better out there for about the same moneym is more versatile and is a lot less hassle.

Cheers, Vince

Its more of a tactical round than a hunting round, It was developed to shoot a heavy projectile slow, so as not produce a sonic signature (a sonic "crack") as the bullet goes past a targets head, in the event of a missed shot, the targeted bad guy wont realize where the bullets comeing from or quit possibly even that he is being shot at, because they are also easyer to silence.
Hope this helps Gelan.

gelandangan,

The prices that you were given a just a bit lower than what I paid for my reamers and dies. Your barrel price is a bit higher than I paid for my Douglas barrel. I paid in USdollars. Fitting of the barrel, if it includes truing the action is on the low side and about right if your smith is not going to do the truing but is bedding the stock for the new barrel. (truing the action is worth the extra money if accuracy is important to you)
If you buy the dies, you should be able to keep them. You can rent them out to gunsmiths in the area to help make up for the cost to you.

$800 is not a lot of money for a custom rifle. It is a lot to pay for a new gun off the shelf. You have to decide what you call it - custom or new.
On the second question - Is it a good deer cartridge. Compare the velocities to standards - 30-30 killed a lot of deer - will it shoot bulets of the same weight at the same velocity or higher? if it will then I say you have a good deer gun. If it won't then I would say that you are better off with 300 savage or some larger capacity round.
Cast projectiles are always harder than swaged lead bullets. swaged bullets will be more dense because they are pure lead and lead is heavier than lead-tin alloys. It will not shoot well at velocities higher than about 800 fps. The harder allows will do well at velocities nearly twice that speed. So you are better of with cast over the swaged lead bullets. To get the best out of your cartridge go at least 20 inch cabine length barrel in a rifle and use a heavy barrel with minimum taper.

Vince, thanks for your reply mate, but as I said, I already have a few rifle, in 223, 243, 308, 357 etc. The main reason I choose the whisper is for its quietness ( a pop instead of a BOOM ) plus its light recoil ( so the missus could use it too, without bruising her too much ). You are right it is a bit pricey to do the conversion but well, this gunsmith not only convert the caliber, he also true the action and develop loads for me :). I had my 308 WIN Ruger77 that were shooting 2 to 3 inches group at 100 meters no matter what load I try on it, give the rifle to him, and a month later, the rifle is shooting 10 cents coin down range :) it cost me about $300 then. I think it worth every cents

Crackshot, Yes I agree that it is more of a tactical round than a hunting one. But if the targeted animal do not know where the shot came from, or even if they were shot at at all, they would simply resume grazing, thus enable me to pick them off one by one Here in Oz, pigs cames in mobs of 10 - 20 or more, and goats... hehehe... sometime, I could mow 10 goats in a mob with my lever action marlin shooting 38cal. Then there will be a lot of meat to carry ... fill the chiller on the first day, then attempt hard shots on the rest of the trip (like walking right to the middle of the mob and scream at them :) )

PaulS. I reckond you are right, I just got my emails anwered by Clymer and PTG.. they quote me reamer prices WAY higher than what my gunsmit quoted for. About barrel, I have not much choice here, in Oz, well, short of importing them myself (RED TAPE) I could only choose from MAB, Tobler and err.. cant think of the orhte mob's name right now.. But MAB is the cheapest of the lot.
I think the books said that the .300 WHisper could spit out 130gn at 2100 fps. So, it is not much different from a 30-30. I will however, load it to throw 180 gn at about 1100 fps or just subsonic. I reckond it should do well for goats and pigs, and soem close up deers.

I think I will use 24 inch barrel to quiet the gun some more, and to milk all velocity I could when using supersonic loads.

Gelan

One factor you might want to consider is that with your proposed 180 grain bullet at 1100 fps, the bullet probably will not expand. Most 180 grain bullets are designed to work at 2000+ fps,and at the impact velocities you'll be getting, they'll likely act like a FMJ.
Since you're planning on using the rifle for game, that might be a factor.

The Wisper as has been stated was designed for heavy bullets to be launched at sub-sonic speeds so as to be able to use a sound supressor/silencer. There was no intent at the time it was developed for it to be used as a "Game Cartridge". Unless you put your shot perfectly you will more than likely only wound(seriously) most game animals, this to me is very unethical. The bullets in .308 are designed for higher velocities for expansion.

I like your idea for a lower sound signature, have you thought about the 30 Benchrest? I believe that the velocities achieved would be more toward you goals, very similar to a 30-30 but using a necked up 6mm BR case. If you were to use a 125 or 150gr Nosler BT you would have a very short action/cartridge that would be good out to @ 250 yards. Most of the loading data is for 112 - 125gr Match bullets but viable loads for 125 - 150gr bullets should be available. One other thing that you would need to consider is that the BR firearms have a very slow twist 1 in 18" or so. You probably would want to consider a 1 in 12" for your application as the slowest twist.

www.6mmbr.com/30BR.html

hunting ethics

one shot.........one kill.

it is not ethical to hunt with firearms either majorly undersuited or oversuited for the game your hunting.

a 22 will kill a elk at 300 yards with proper shot placement but isnt realistic for the majority of hunters {i place myself in this group}.

a 300 win mag will kill rabbits in a crowded neighborhoob but also is not realisticly proper.

machine guns will kill any game on the planet but realisticly isnt very ethical {or legal}

1000 ft/lbs plus at the range your shooting is the realistic desired power you need to kill a elk {my 303 at 300 yards meets this limit}. so ethically it isnt realistic or ethical for me to attempt a 500 yard shot. i could hit the elk at 500 yards but not be assured of a clean kill.

we hunters take flak when we hunt game using the proper caliber, velocity, skill level and are considerate and follow all laws. hunters using substandard firearms/ammo gives antihunters more evidence that hunters cant be trusted and more restrictive gun laws are needed.

how many times while hunting have we hit the ground hoping we werent shot when some idiot empties a 10 round clip at something 500 yards away in the brush boomboomboomboomboomboomboomboomboomboom.

how many times in deer camp have we shook our head at the guy who drags a 200 lb deer into camp with his 22 mag on his back.

just because something will kill a type of game doesnt make it legal or ethical.

we hunters as a group must do everything in our power to make sure not only do we hunt legally but ethically.

this is not directed at any poster what so ever it is just a point we all need to consider to retain what few hunting rights we have left.

they want to take our hand guns away from us when we defend ourselves with them. they make laws which not only take our firearms away from us but try to stop us from legally hunting. we must be very carefull not to give more evidence we as hunters cant be trusted to be ethical.

Spacedone,

Spot on advice that every hunter should live by.

Spacedone wrote:

one shot.........one kill.

Combine that with "Kill it.......and Grill it"......and you get a gold star........

Gelan
As stated by others, the cartridge is not powerful enough for "reliable expansion on tough thick skinned game, such as hogs you mentioned.
I would choose another more powerful cartridge for the use you described.

Point taken

Thanks for the opinions and suggestions.

Gelan.