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gelandangan Super Member
Joined: May 07, 2006 Posts: 6401 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:41 am Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets |
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Aloy, I am not arguing just stating my findings.
I have been wrong many times, so I am happy to learn more.
IMO with the 165gn boolit the situation would be different,
the combustion would be a tad more even due to the weight of the boolit that it need to overcome before moving away from the chamber.
It is estimated that 95% of the powder would burn out within 8.5 inch from the breech, with max pressure happening within 1.5 inch from the chamber (where the barrel is usually the thickest) and right away tapering down cutting very little possibility for SEE...
OTOH with the lighter 100gn boolits, max pressure is at 2 inch away from the end of chamber and sort of elongated all the way to about 5 inch, and the powder never reach 95% burn, thus allowing for possibility of detonation (SEE) further down the barrel where it is weakest.
This fact is the reason why I always look for the heaviest boolits for my subsonis loads.. beside the fact that they carry more energy that is..
_________________ A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.
Do - Not try!
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Aloysius Super Member
Joined: Nov 03, 2009 Posts: 2440 Location: B., Belgium
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:22 am Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets |
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Geland, have also a look at those data from Omini and look what kind of powders they are using.
I don't know if you're also familiar with the PCL-powders, but when loading lead bullets for a rifle, I mainly use 3 different powders: PCL504, PCL512 and N110 (and occasionally that (expensive) Trail Boss).
According your point of view, I should use the PCL504 more often because you consider it safer. And I was prefering the PCL512 and the N110 because I got the feeling it was safer to use these slower powders...
and I always feel the need to learn something extra, it keeps me younger
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Ominivision1 Super Member
Joined: Sep 20, 2010 Posts: 2984 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets |
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_________________ Regards
Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds. |
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gelandangan Super Member
Joined: May 07, 2006 Posts: 6401 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets |
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Aloysius wrote: |
PCL504, PCL512 and N110 (and occasionally that (expensive) Trail Boss). |
Ok lets try them.
With the same load density of say 50% AND Lead Boolit of 100gn ON a 30-30 cartridge.
PCL504 would burn at about 44kpsi and fully burned out within 2 inch from the breech end in a total time of about 400 microsecond (0.0004 second), then tapering sharply down. (DANGEROUSLY HIGH PRESSURE)
PCL512 would burn at about 17kpsi, never fully burnt out but burned out 95% within 15,5 inch from breech end.
The pressure is sloping gently, at 8 inch it is still at 10kpsi.
N110 11kpsi, never even burnt out 95% and the pressure is almost even all along the barrel.
From the top 3, it is better off in term of efficiency and accuracy by using PCL512, it gives even pressure but less as the projectile moves away from the reinforced area of the barrel.
The powder burned to 95% so there is not too much waste nor have high chance of SEE.
Now, bear in mind that the loads are at 50% LD, thus having plenty of empty spaces in the cartridge.
NONE of these loads can be considered optimal, so the conclusion are that none of the powder are best suited for the cartridge.
_________________ A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.
Do - Not try!
gelandangan.weebly.com/ |
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MacD Super Member
Joined: Apr 08, 2011 Posts: 1052 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets |
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This got me thinking so I did some Googling. This is interesting and pertains.
www.gmdr.com/lever/pistolpowi.htm
_________________ La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle) |
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Aloysius Super Member
Joined: Nov 03, 2009 Posts: 2440 Location: B., Belgium
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Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:04 am Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets |
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PaulS Super Member
Joined: Feb 18, 2006 Posts: 4330 Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:44 am Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets |
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Can you get Hodgdon H110 or the same powder by Winchester, WW 296? I think ADI sells the same powder under a different label name too.
_________________ Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads |
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Aloysius Super Member
Joined: Nov 03, 2009 Posts: 2440 Location: B., Belgium
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:51 am Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets |
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I have here H110, no problem. But look at the remarks of Geland according these rather slow pistolpowders used with rather light bullets...
and I don't know about his teeth, but Geland sure seems to have a golden head and golden hands...
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15725 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Ominivision1 Super Member
Joined: Sep 20, 2010 Posts: 2984 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: cast 30-30 boolets |
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Interesting Vince, I have 4lbs (4 single one lb containers) of Imr 4227 thats says it was made in Australia. I also brought 2lbs of Imr 4227 this year that was made in Canada. I'm assuming the stuff made in Australia is H4227 (AR2205) and the stuff made in Canada is the original Imr 4227.
_________________ Regards
Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds. |
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