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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9259 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:40 pm Post subject: why??? |
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how come the reloading manuals have .223 load data and then mini14 .223 loads that are quite a bit lighter/softer???
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SingleShotLover Super Member
Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 1005 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:12 am Post subject: Re: why??? |
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I'm guessing that it has to do with pressure tolerances. Most semi-autos have a lower pressure maximum than bolt action or single shot rifles do simply because of the nature of construction and design. Since there are no appreciable moving parts in bolt or single shot rifles (at least during the shot and pressure curve period) they can tolerate much higher pressures than firearms that rely on a specific range of pressures to operate.
A good case in point would be the .280 Remington. Most loading manuals are a little on the light side of SAAMI pressures due to the fact that early on Remington was pushing it in a semi-auto design. The same cartridge in "stronger" actions can be safely loaded to creep pretty close to 7MM Magnum territory.
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8316 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:41 am Post subject: Re: why??? |
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Elvis wrote: |
mini14 .223 loads that are quite a bit lighter/softer??? |
Where did you see that data? I didn't reload for my mini-14 but ran about everything through it you could buy off the shelf.
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
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Pumpkinslinger Super Member
Joined: Sep 22, 2007 Posts: 5002 Location: NC foothills
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:38 am Post subject: Re: why??? |
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I've never seen separate loads list specifically for Mini-14s but I know that the Hornady manual has two sections for .223. One for regular loads and another for "service rifle" loads. The "service rifle" data is for the heavier bullets. I've always fired any .223 load I had handy in my Mini-14.
_________________ Mike
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TRBLSHTR Super Member
Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 1071 Location: Lower 48's-left coast(near portlandia)
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Pumpkinslinger Super Member
Joined: Sep 22, 2007 Posts: 5002 Location: NC foothills
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: why??? |
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We've discussed it before but when shooting the autos that use gas to operate the action you have to be aware of the gas pressure at the gas port. If its too low it might not cycle the action, if too high it can slam it and cause unnecessary wear. This is controlled by the type of powder used.
_________________ Mike
"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle |
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8316 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: why??? |
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TRBLSHTR wrote: |
not knocking my many ar's but they have a action that can be ruined by warmer loads, |
I'm trying to make sense of this and may have misunderstood. Most AR actions are designed for 5.56 Mil-Spec ammo which is 10% or more hotter than commercial .223.
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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TRBLSHTR Super Member
Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 1071 Location: Lower 48's-left coast(near portlandia)
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: why??? |
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slimjim wrote: |
TRBLSHTR wrote: |
not knocking my many ar's but they have a action that can be ruined by warmer loads, |
I'm trying to make sense of this and may have misunderstood. Most AR actions are designed for 5.56 Mil-Spec ammo which is 10% or more hotter than commercial .223. |
True story SJ,I don't disagree at all.This is about reloads on the service rifle data,where rielly's reloader's law says-just a little past maximum and this thing will be a "short magnum"(or blown up)!I have always loaded within specs,and have found when I tried to approach maximum my accuracy went south.Sometimes slower is better!
BTW-the original ar-15 was developed using 4895 powder and I have used it in ar's and mini's both with excellent results.
_________________ "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." Thomas Mann |
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9259 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:18 pm Post subject: Re: why??? |
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mulwex load booklet.
has 40grn pill with 18.5grns of2205 or 22.5grns 2207 doesnt have data for 2206 for mini 14
but for std .223 has40grn pill with22.5 of 2207 and 25,5 of 2206
so I guess its not a lesser load just strange that different loads/powders for the same case just different rifles???
its got loads for all my calibers using 2206
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Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15723 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:58 am Post subject: Re: why??? |
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Elvis wrote: |
mulwex load booklet. |
Hey mate....how old is the booklet you are looking at from Mulwex??? Mulwex load data is way out of date mate, in fact the manufacturer is on their second name (and owner) change since then...ADI and now Thales.
Thales list the following:
Bullet Wt.....Powder.....Min Load........Velocity........Max Load....Velocity
40gn............AR2205.......18.0...............3190 fps........20.0.............3545 fps
40gn............AR2207.......20.5...............3145 fps........22.5.............3600 fps
40gn............AR2206.......24.8...............3240 fps........27.5 C..........3590 fps
(C = Compressed Load)
The current Handloaders' Guide only lists 223 Remington (5.56mm x 45) and makes no differentiation in regards to .223 and the Mini 14.
ADI/Thales Handloaders Guide
Cheers, Vince
_________________ Cheers, Vince
Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)
Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9259 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:40 am Post subject: Re: why??? |
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1986 so yea I guess its a tad old the ar2205 and AR2213 data was new when published. the loads from this booklet I have used are fine and YES I have checked them with as many other sorses as I can find before loading. I have a Nick Harvey ,2 nosler and a sierra manual winchester booklets and ADI booklet.I just found it wierd that data was different.
Ive not seen thales on a shelf here yet.
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15723 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:53 am Post subject: Re: why??? |
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You don't need to find it on the shelf mate...its a free download from the net.
Here ya go...this link takes you straight to the Handloaders Guide.
ADI/Thales Handloaders' Guide 5th Edition
On the page there is also a link to download the booklet as a .pdf document.
Personally, I find it easier to download it to my computer, print out the page/s I am most likely to use (my calibres), and refer back to the computer if needed.
Cheers, Vince
_________________ Cheers, Vince
Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)
Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.
"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done) |
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9259 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: why??? |
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ta have added to favourites..
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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