Aloysius wrote:

Vince wrote: OK, you have convinced me that it isn't really worth the trouble, work or expense. I suppose I'll have to look around for a 308 now. 308 Win or a 30/30 Win, both are doing not so bad with home-cooked lead pills at +/- the velocity of sound. I would say the .308 is better, unless you love a lever action (and even then you can have a look at a Browning lever action in .308 Win, or is that still in my dreams because I never got the chance to hug it?) Do you know that (I think) Walther is selling in Germany adaptors to shoot a .32 ACP or a .30 Carbine in a .308 Win chamber? Brass for the .30 M1 is still available and cheap, so such an adaptor for .30 Carbine could give you .300 BO performance in a .308 rifle even when using factory .30 M1 feed.

I already have a 30.30 mate, in a Winchester Model 94. I have developed loads for it ranging from subsonic lead pills to hard hitting 150gr, 160gr and 170gr pills, so maybe I'm just being greedy in wanting something else.

[quote="Aloysius"]

Vince wrote:

I would say the .308 is better, unless you love a lever action (and even then you can have a look at a Browning lever action in .308 Win.

IM me if anyone wants to take possession of a Browning lever action in .308 Win.

hehehehehe
there is one in my cabinet with a sexy new 4x12x40mm loopy sitting in new weaver med high mounts...... and it wont be going anywhere any time soon.

[quote="slimjim"]

Aloysius wrote:

Vince wrote: I would say the .308 is better, unless you love a lever action (and even then you can have a look at a Browning lever action in .308 Win. IM me if anyone wants to take possession of a Browning lever action in .308 Win.

I would love to Slim, but I don't even want to think about the cost of buying it, the cost of shipping it to Australia then the hassles of convincing the Govt to allow me to import it into the country mate.

slimjim wrote:

stovepipe wrote: Then there's this one. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl4_PEbXd8s It's small, light, very controllable....and goes BIG at the same time. stovey, is that the correct link? I see BIG but small, light, and very controllable? He is using it as a SBR.

It is small and light. It's not an SBR. He has a buffer tube on it, not a brace. Most pistols are shot welded, not off-hip. Good luck hitting something otherwise. Plus its not safe. Always weld it.

OK- maybe I've not shot ALL the AR pistols. But in .223, 30 cal, 300, blah blah blah....it's an AR-15 upper with a short pinned tube and a buffer tube with foam on it. High-Pressure, Bottle neck rifle rounds (e.g.: .308W) are NOT AR-15 pistols.

Speaking of Mongrel AR-15....

This (pic) is as big as the AR-15 gets.

And, the upper will fit on any mil-spec lower.

You all remember this scratch built monster....hehehehe. 10 hits in a radiator @ 150y in under 8 seconds = really really big vehicle stops with a ventilated engine. Heheheheh....

stovepipe wrote:

It is small and light. It's not an SBR.

Small and light are relative. I stated he was using it like an SBR. Until a couple of months ago, it was illegal to shoulder a AR Pistol.

stovepipe wrote:

High-Pressure, Bottle neck rifle rounds (e.g.: .308W) are NOT AR-15 pistols.

So a 5.56 isn't a high-pressure, bottle-neck rifle round?

So my 6.8mm SPC in AR pistol configuration is not a pistol?

I stand corrected for flapping w/o accuracy. I was talking about ya know, AR-10 chambered stuff.

Apologies.

It was years back but I looked it up and there was no clause by the ATF (I could find) on intended usage or type of "hold" (off-hand, shouldered, between the legs, whatever) as long as it was a pistol was made to Code w/o any additional shouldering devices/extensions, et. al. I had heard ATF said do NOT shoulder one with a "brace" when those came out- for obvious reasons. None of the one's I've shot had a "brace", they were to the Code, buffer tube only.

I had a conversation with someone yesterday about the .300 Blackout and his comment was "The .300 is s**t! The trajectory with subsonic loads is like a rainbow. The 5.56 and 7.62 NATO subsonic loads are MUCH flatter."

Well, thanks to playing with this program called PointBlank I knew he was full of..., errrr, incorrect. I did wonder how much difference the ballistic coefficient would make so I plugged in the same numbers twice, only changing the BC. Bullet weight = 220 gr, muzzle velocity = 1100 ft/sec, target distance = 100 yds, scope height = 2.5", temperature = 70F, altitude = 500 ft and shooting angle = 0. Then I entered a BC of 0.2 and again at 0.5.

The difference in trajectories at 50 yards is 0.27". At 150 yards the difference is 1.33". Naturally the higher BC is shooting flatter but at the distances I'd be shooting subsonic ammo it really isn't making much difference.

Energy-wise, at 150 yards, the higher BC provides an 18% advantage, which is significant. But we're talking about "handgun level" energies anyway, 433 vs 512 ftlbs. At 50 yards there is a 7% difference and at 100 yards it is 13%.

So anyway, I'm still interested in the .300 Blackout pistol. And the BATF has recently decided that it is OK to "shoulder" a pistol with a "brace", with certain restrictions.
www.nraila.org/article...ing-braces

try punching in one of the new "bowing" type bullets...... the replacements for AMax in 220ish grains with BC of somewhere around 767 (thus airplane tag)
they will hold up ok but will still pencil through....and man will they bounce if you dont hit something soft to stop them.

Of the ones I did try, the 300 BO non-sub was my fave.

.223 was too obnoxious.

300 was just right. Easy to find bullets. Easy to make cases from .223 pick-ups. Ran well, fed well. Neat round.

I'm not sure why it took me so long to realize this but the .300 Blackout subsonic loads are about like the .45 Auto or .45 Colt range, 220 grain bullets around 1000 ft/sec. Now the .300 CAN shoot a little faster (1400 ft/sec), if you want to skip the subsonic part.

A friend has offered to loan me an AR upper (16" barrel) in .300 to play with. He didn't like it so maybe I'll offer to buy it...

I like the 16" AR in 300 BO.

Fun to shoot. Loaded up it hits pretty hard. Easy to carry and reload. No recoil. I like it!

pumpkin......the .30 cal MIGHT expand to .45 but the .45 wont shrink

forget which wiseman said that recently.