Hi
I'm try annealling for the first time- using a MAP gas.
If the purpose of your annealing is so its easier to neck down the case do you still quench the case after is annealed or do you let it air cool to keep it soft??

thanks

later
P
BTW- trying to form 223R into 221FB

You raise two points in your question of annealing before necking down.

First, if you are new to annealing, understand that it is VERY EASY to damage the brass with excessive heat. MAPP gas is signifcantly hotter than propane so it will be very easy to over heat the brass. NEVER heat brass to a "cherry red" color, that burns out some of the zinc from the brass alloy and makes it dead soft forever. And that makes for poor case neck tension on the bullet. Forever.

Second, you are not "quenching" the brass as in tempering steel when you drop it into water because the brass won't get harder with rapid cooling. What you are doing is limiting the annealing - softening - to that part you want softened, that being the neck and a portion of the shoulder. Softening the case body and, heavens forbid, the web is not safe so rapid cooling is neccessary to stop the migration of heat down the case. Done correctly there will be a very slight blue color to the neck and shoulder of the cases when you finish.

It may be best to anneal in a darkened room. Heat the neck until the brass shows JUST A SLIGHT GLOW towards red. Hold the case in your fingers and spin it in the torch flame, then drop it into a bucket of water immediately when you detect a faint glow of color. Your fingers will positively insure that you don't let the case head get overheated!

I lost the site, but in the current Rifle magazine, there is an article that gives an easy way anneal cases. The author says has used the method for years,and it works very well.

A friend of his , who is a metallurgist, determined by using tempilaq or a similar substance, that a common candle will provide enough heat to anneal a case mouth.

Found a site with a re write of the article. No attribution accompanied the piece.
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The melted-lead dip method is much better, as is Hornady's annealing kit, but I use a simpler method perfected by my friend Fred Barker. With Fred's method you hold the case in your fingertips, halfway up the case body, then heat the neck in the flame from a common wax candle, turning it constantly, until the case gets too hot to hold. Drop it onto a water-soaked towel, then use the towel to wipe the case off, which finishes the annealing and gets rid of the black soot from the candle. The Barker Method is fast, cheap, easy, and anneals just the right amount.

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Cheap, simple and effective.

I use the old water in a pan, 1/3 up the case method. Stand a group of cases in a flat bottom pan, fill pan 1/3 up the case length with clean water. With a propane torch in garage with door closed and light off, you can easily see the slight red color start up, tip the case over with the tip of the torch and go to the next. It takes longer to tell how it is done than to do it. You can do brass, brass or nickel brass, they will come out with a blue color at the top 1/3 of the case, size em and next time you tumble they should sparkle right up.

As stated before, cherry red is just before the brass slumps, so a light tinge of red is the ticket. In a bright light you only know when the case is too hot, when the case wilts like a heated candle.
Ed

I was told to makem cherry red
makes it more easy for resing to other caliber

A LOT of us were 'told to heat them cherry red." So, a LOT of us screwed up the brass we were serioulsly trying to improve. Red brass is much too hot, in fact any "glow" we can detect in a lighted room is too hot.

Do your annealing in a darkened room, using a propane torch. Twirl the case with your fingers to heat the neck/shoulder junction evenly and drop the case in a bucket of water as soon as (1) your fingers get hot or (2) you can see any evidence of a glow at all. The properly annealed case will have a faint blush of blue color afterwards, on the neck and shoulder only, and a slight yellowish color change on the body to shoulder junction.

I make 22-250 cases from .30-06. That usually requires annealing before starting and again after reaching the .250 Savage step. Done as described, the cases work well and last a long time, with further annealing done after each fifth loading.

I'm not knocking the cherry red method , it was what many of us were taught to do , but there has been a lot of new ideas floating around , and I think the hot to the touch method is the best ..

With large calibers , as in my 458 Lott , I do the melted lead method evry other reload ..

If you use the melted lead method you would get consistent heat.

what is this melted lead method ? as rick say splain diss pls