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XcountryRider Rookie Member
Joined: Oct 19, 2013 Posts: 17 Location: Pine Valley Ca
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gelandangan Super Member
Joined: May 07, 2006 Posts: 6401 Location: Sydney Australia
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Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges |
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Great job mate, I guess it is useful for those that need them.
OTOH, I wonder why expansion is needed for hunting?
Ok they may create larger wound but are they really be the determining factor?
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8316 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges |
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XcountryRider, thanks for posting. This certainly will generate discussion. So let's begin.
I have found through terminal performance testing of numerous bullets that bullet expansion is defined by kinetic energy not velocity, e.g., a heavier bullet of the same design will expand/function at a lower velocity. Yes, I know the bullet manufactures list velocity but its kinetic energy. A good example is Nosler's new Accubond Long Range. Nosler claims a 1300 fps minimum opening velocity. This, however, is for their heavy .308 bullets. The 150gr .277 Accubond LR opens at just under 1500 fps which is the same kinetic energy as the heaiver .308 bullets at 1300 fps. Your example uses the same bullet (SST) at basically the same weight which make this comparison a pretty good one. I have only tested the SST down to 940 lb-ft/1880 fps. At this energy level, the SST looked like it would was still functioning with viggor.
www.huntingnut.com/ind...ic&t=10526
It was also interesting the barrel lengths choosen. They weren't the same length. Wouldn't the comparison be better if the comparision was with the same length barrels?
It looks like the 6.8SPC velocity listed is the original chamber that Remington came out with. It has been improved and now called the SPC II. Most 6.8 guys shooting the SST are achieving 2500 to 2550 fps mv with 16" barrels.
Bullet design is another consideration. The 6.8 community is lucky to have so many bullets designed specifical for that round. If the 6.8 was left to hunt with typical .277 bullets that is designed for the .270 Win, the 6.8s actual performance would not be as impressive. The data I've collected so far indicates that most bullets design for the .270 Win take about 30% more energy to function. This is a significant issue for the .300 BO. I was concerned that the 6.5mm hunting bullets are designed for the 6.5mm cartidges with more case capacity.
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XcountryRider Rookie Member
Joined: Oct 19, 2013 Posts: 17 Location: Pine Valley Ca
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Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges |
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Lets handle the barrel length first. The 30AR only comes in a 22in barrel and the 300blk is very very hard to find in anything other than a 16in. On the 6.8 SPCII i only used factory ammo for this comparison and it makes no difference if the Hornady 6.8 SPC ammo is fired from a 6.8SPC II or 6.8SPC chambered rifle the velocity is the same. All of the data from 6.8SPCII loaded SST rounds are hand loads if i used hand load data then its anarchy and no one is satisfied i didn't use there particular load because they all get 100fps faster than everyone else. Its more fair to just use factory loads across the board.
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XcountryRider Rookie Member
Joined: Oct 19, 2013 Posts: 17 Location: Pine Valley Ca
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Suzanne Super Member
Joined: Jun 27, 2009 Posts: 3323 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8316 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges |
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XcountryRider wrote: |
Another note the 123gr SST and 123gr Amax was designed for the Grendel. |
So there is at least 1 hunting bullet designed for the Grendel and its a fragmentation bullet. More options would be nice. With time there will be more.
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8316 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges |
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XcountryRider wrote: |
Lets handle the barrel length first. The 30AR only comes in a 22in barrel and the 300blk is very very hard to find in anything other than a 16in. |
Grendels and 6.8s come in 22-inch barrels. That would make that comparison more even.
XcountryRider wrote: |
On the 6.8 SPCII i only used factory ammo for this comparison and it makes no difference if the Hornady 6.8 SPC ammo is fired from a 6.8SPC II or 6.8SPC chambered rifle the velocity is the same. |
It does make a difference if 6.8 SPCII factory ammo is fired in a 6.8 with a SPCII chamber. Silver State Armory has 6.8 ammo that is loaded for the SPCII.
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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XcountryRider Rookie Member
Joined: Oct 19, 2013 Posts: 17 Location: Pine Valley Ca
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Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges |
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Silver state does not have SST ammo loaded in for 6.8 SPC or 6.8SPC II i looked. I did run a 110gr Nosler and they actually lost effective hunting range. If you use a 22in barrel for the 6.8SPC which i don't think exists the 30AR and 6.8SPC have about the same effective hunting range. Interestingly they are both are less than a 16in grendel which is right at 400yards. If you can find a 22in 6.8SPC please send the link. If you can find 6.8SPC ammo other than hornady ammo loaded in 120gr SST please send the link.
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XcountryRider Rookie Member
Joined: Oct 19, 2013 Posts: 17 Location: Pine Valley Ca
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Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges |
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slimjim wrote: |
XcountryRider wrote: |
Another note the 123gr SST and 123gr Amax was designed for the Grendel. |
So there is at least 1 hunting bullet designed for the Grendel and its a fragmentation bullet. More options would be nice. With time there will be more. |
Did you just say the SST was a varmint rount like a vmax?
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8316 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges |
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XcountryRider wrote: |
I did run a 110gr Nosler and they actually lost effective hunting range. |
You missed the earlier point. Velocity doesn't establish a hunting range yet you keep using it. Accubonds and SSTs function in complete different principles.
XcountryRider wrote: |
a 22in barrel for the 6.8SPC which i don't think exists ... If you can find a 22in 6.8SPC please send the link. |
bisonarmory.com/22-6-8...stainless/
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
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PaulS Super Member
Joined: Feb 18, 2006 Posts: 4330 Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State
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Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges |
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OK, let me throw in a comment my brother constantly uses on me;
"I shoot head and neck shots with varmint bullets. As long as I am capable of hitting the animal I can kill it right there."
And he does. Using a 6mm TCU and a 75 grain HP varminter bullet he easily takes Mule deer. They fall DRT.
So the maximum range for hunting has a whole new meaning.
_________________ Paul
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XcountryRider Rookie Member
Joined: Oct 19, 2013 Posts: 17 Location: Pine Valley Ca
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XcountryRider Rookie Member
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9261 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Max AR15 Hunting Ranges |
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PaulS wrote: |
OK, let me throw in a comment my brother constantly uses on me;
"I shoot head and neck shots with varmint bullets. As long as I am capable of hitting the animal I can kill it right there."
And he does. Using a 6mm TCU and a 75 grain HP varminter bullet he easily takes Mule deer. They fall DRT.
So the maximum range for hunting has a whole new meaning. |
you are so right Paul...loads of guys use them for just that purpose..the .22/250 users fall into two camps neck/head with soft pills or heavier/harder body shooters. the same goes for .223 users.
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