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Empty Brass hung in gun and Bolt now broken....
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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wrestledonce
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:01 am    Post subject: Empty Brass hung in gun and Bolt now broken.... Reply with quote

Long story, but I am looking for some suggestions....

1. I have a fired brass that is hung in my rifle.

2. I had this happen before and was able to rotate the bolt and tap it back with a rubber mallet, pulled the brass without issue.

3. I could rotate the bolt, tried to tap the bolt back on the Rem. 700 action with a rubber mallet and the bolt broke off. I was using a little more force this time, my fault.

Now I have empty brass hung in the gun and no bolt on the action. Here is my thinking, give me your thoughts.

1. Try to drive the brass out with a dowel rod from the barrel side (assumes the bolt / action is fully open which I think it is) - should have done this in the first place... and it looks to be the favored recommendation when trolling the web.

2. With the above, could use oil down the barrel to help lubricate. Noted several times in searches others suggestion Kroll oil. Try driving out with dowel after giving it some time to soak / lubricate.

3. Using dry ice in the above to freeze the chamber - steel and brass freeze / thaw at different rates. Try diving out while freezing and then while thawing.

4. If above fails, take it to a gunsmith and have the barrel unscrewed, removing the barrel should free the brass, allow the action to work properly.

5. Once the action is freed and the brass has been removed, send the bolt and action to a gun smith to be Tig welded back on or soldered back on... (guy in Alaska at www.accu-tig.com charges $40 to Tig bolt on).

Thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks, Chris
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:05 am    Post subject: Re: Empty Brass hung in gun and Bolt now broken.... Reply with quote

I suggest to use dowel from the muzzle.
I also suggest to get the chamber polished once the brass is out.

Your gunsmith should usually able to reattach the bolt handle.
Check your extractor claw, it might be damaged if the force on it is high enough to snap the bolt.

Next check if your load is over pressured.. It may be dangerous if not fixed.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:30 am    Post subject: Re: Empty Brass hung in gun and Bolt now broken.... Reply with quote

I agree with Gelan on this one...especially the part about over pressure loads. I have a feeling that you are loading well beyond the maximums wrestledonce.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Empty Brass hung in gun and Bolt now broken.... Reply with quote

Or the easy way, and take it to a gunsmith to deal with it. Sounds like it will end up in his hands soon anyway. You've already broke something, maybe he can keep you from breaking something else. (I don't mean that to sound so harsh) but he might have a better idea and be able to save you more grief.

The dowel sounds good but if there's no bullet in the case then the dowel will be hammered against the open mouth of the case and the wood will splinter and split on the case mouth which may wedge the case and the wood making a bad situation worse. Consider some other material as the dowel needs to be hard but not damaging to the chamber.

Let us know how it goes! It's always nice to hear a solution to a problem.

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: Empty Brass hung in gun and Bolt now broken.... Reply with quote

WHAT IS THE LOAD DATA YOU ARE USING???

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TRBLSHTR
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Empty Brass hung in gun and Bolt now broken.... Reply with quote

wtf I had a similar thing happen with a rem 788-hot load!After removing the bolt and NOT being able to drive out the brass with a dowel(head separation,and case swelled into chamber.I finally was running out of options-so I found a bolt tap that would fit into the broken off base end of the cartridge-slid it into place with a reversed socket extension,and turned it into place with the extension and a 3/8ths open end wrench.After about 2 turns the brass just rotated free-no damage to the chamber as the cutting teeth of the tap never came thru the brass!As for the bolt it might be a better option to replace it-unless the alaska GS can guarantee his weld!No more hot loads for that gun,and I traded it right after it was repaired for-get this;a tig handle,argon bottle,and High freq box!

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Empty Brass hung in gun and Bolt now broken.... Reply with quote

Did this same thing 20 years ago on my M700 30/06, I was able to open the bolt but that was it. Drove out the brass with a brass dowel rod slighlty smaller than .308. Using a dead blow (compound) hammer hitting the dowel rod till it backed out slowly, I would not use a wooden dowel rod at all, as it may compound the problem even more if it breaks. Good luck.

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TRBLSHTR
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Empty Brass hung in gun and Bolt now broken.... Reply with quote

Embarassed I forgot to mention that I broke off my bolt handle too and the only thing left was a closed bolt with a hole in it where the handle used to be!I shot a bunch of aerokroil down the barrel to loosen the brass in the chamber,and took a ball peenhammer and a drift punch large enough to fit the hole in the bolt where the bolt handle used to be and tapped the bolt open-then removed it,along with the broken case head.Then used the tap as indicated in my first post!Reminton used to use some sort of brazing method I think called "immersion brazing/welding"?I'm not really impressed with the results!

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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Empty Brass hung in gun and Bolt now broken.... Reply with quote

There's good advice above. Definitely check your load data ...

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Empty Brass hung in gun and Bolt now broken.... Reply with quote

Smartest solution... gun smith. I followed a similar thread on another forum for several days and, after getting a cleaning rod stuck in the bore, he finally took it to a gun smith who fixed it pretty quickly.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Empty Brass hung in gun and Bolt now broken.... Reply with quote

my vote is for a gunsmith too and take along a few of your reloads and fired cases for them to look at aswell. you use a 7mm 300win mag isn't it???
the smith may well be able to suss out what is going wrong
take this as a warning
far better a broken bolt now than a broken face/head later or have a hunt ruined by this issue happening again.

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:44 am    Post subject: Re: Empty Brass hung in gun and Bolt now broken.... Reply with quote

My vote is for the gunsmith too. You can't be positive that the bolt is indeed in the fully unlocked position. Heavy blows could cause severe damage to your locking lugs and the lug recesses in which they travel. This only compounds the problem making the repair substantially higher in cost. I also have to ask about your load.

Good luck and stay safe.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: Empty Brass hung in gun and Bolt now broken.... Reply with quote

Jammed case from what cause - not enough information. Broken bolt handle from smacking with a hammer. Now its more smacking or take to a professional. If it was mine I would opt for the gunsmith.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Empty Brass hung in gun and Bolt now broken.... Reply with quote

I agree, take the gun and its parts to a gunsmith and then compare your load data to the bullet maker's and the powder maker's loads.
What you are describing points to a load that is developing almost twice the maximum pressure in your gun. That doesn't mean twice the charge just twice the pressure.
For a 3006 using a 165 grain bullet and a maximum charge of H414 (56 - 57 grains) a 5 to 6 grain charge over maximum would generate close to those pressures. It's a combination of the extra powder and the reduction in free space in the cartridge that generates the added pressure. Even if you are using a recommended load it is obviously too much pressure and you need to correct that load.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Empty Brass hung in gun and Bolt now broken.... Reply with quote

Would a short chamber and long case account for the over pressure? The only stuck case I have ever seen was in a Mosin Nagent that turned out to have a short headspace problem. Not the usual for a pre-WW1 rifle. Every now and then the owner had bolt closure issues and occasionally a hard opening. Then he bought some newer ammo and got the bolt closed but coundn't get opened. A rubber mallet fixed the problem with the bolt but left the case in the chamber with, I assume, a torn rim. This was at the range and he put it aside. Imet him sometime later at the gunshop I frequent and he said the shops smith got the case out and fixed the tight headspace issue.

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