Elvis wrote:

slim...you know as well as I do that a deer DOES NOT drop on spot from a broad side lung shot UNLESS you take out bone....shoulders.....

I have had 2 deer go stiff leg and fall over (DRT) from broadside lung shots with the .270 (mono bullets) that didn't touch the shoulder. All the other broadside lung shots have gone a few steps or even run 100 yards. The yearlings are the one that seem to run the farthest (they are more elastic).

I have read an analysis that explains this situation. After numerous animal tests, they concluded that the animals circulator system made the difference. Those animals that went lights out, had bullet impact at the same time as the heart beat which compounded/added too high blood pressure. Those animals that took time to expired after the shot, had bullet impact when the heart was not completing its beat.

bet if Steve Adams ran up and whacked his elbow or knee into your solar plexus you would go all stiff legged and stagger around a bit for 30 secounds or so........the common term "winded" comes to mind
I seem to recall even Steve spent a few minutes in rather stiff legged pose a while back when another player smacked him somewhere too....but that couldve been the two lumps in his throat settling back down.

the point I was trying to make is you just wont get that shock/winded/knocked around effect with a subsonic....you fellas who have shot deer with a .12ga will know what I mean,they die for sure but the reaction upon bullet impact is completely different to a supersonic rifle projectile...buckshot really dissapointed me as a teenager but now knowing its limitations etc I can happily use it.

Elvis wrote:

the point I was trying to make is you just wont get that shock/winded/knocked around effect with a subsonic....

Elvis, I am with you. I'm not expecting a bullet with less than 500 ft-lbs of energy to have much shock power. I'm hoping the 195 MKZ I am working with will cause a lot of bleeding.

In the prior post, I was just sharing some info I found on why some animals are DRT while others run after being shot in a similar manner.

tis all good Mate.

It will be good if I can collect more terminal performance data on hogs next week..

well the 40lb sow asleep in the ferns that Meg led me into today didnt complain when a 180grn round nose hornady smashed in her head,took out neck and stopped to rest beside her nipple now weighing 102grns as a perfect mushroom. the 55lb boar that was with her moved off through ferns but made mistake of giving me a glimpse enough to sent 150grn old school silvertip into his midsection (too far back) he squeeled so I sooled Meg in on him...she grabbed and boy did he squeel then,she let go and bailed like a pro....by time I moved the 25 yards to where they were he had expired...... huge pat for Meg.carried them both out and all processed and in freezer. the first wouldve been piece of cake with subsonic...the 2nd wouldve got away if dog wasnt really on her game as it was the super fragile old school silvertip had done a heap of damage on way through (lost both flaps and about 2 cupfulls of meat off rear leg and kidney area.)really happy with both dog and loads
photo is sow after her hot hair removal treatment I picked her at close to 60lb and son thought 30lb scales dont lie 40lb neat.

Elvis, that is how Texans' mount their longhorns. No subs today though?

no subs as using the .308 and I havent got around to doing any for that yet,I have load data sorted,one day I might do some but the x39 does it just as well.....wasnt really seriously hunting just taking Meg for a wander and killing some of those hot sewing machine bummed little german huas that make our life a misery....killed 4 nests that are right where we like to walk. 4 less to dodge in future.placed pig there for photo before cutting it up,couldnt think of better way to give perspective of size.

Well, I walked into a hog grazing this week about 45 minutes before sunrise. Shot it in the shoulder with the subsonic 195 MKZ. You can see the exit wound in the picture below. The hog didn't take a step and dropped right there. I did roll the hog over to take a picture from the off-side.

I then propped it up with a bullet trap behind it and fired bullets through the abdomen, ribcage, and shoulder. All the bullets were pass-thru's. I lined them up with the rounds recovered from the larger hog. On the smaller hog, you can see that the ribs bent the petals back and a pedal was broken off going through the shoulder. The abdomen shot blew internals out both the entrance and exit wound. On the larger hog, the bullet through the ribs shows 2 of the petals not fully out. I've seen in testing with a bullet soft enough to expand at these low velocities that the pedals will fold back if the bullet is turned and exiting tail first which could have been case in this situation.

BTW, I went back to the spot where the carcass was to check it out and there wasn't a thing left - not a trace so I don't have the bullet that when through the larger hogs shoulder.

well they sure look to be doing the business for you.

Elvis, I ask myself what should I expect from a round shot from a rifle that basically has the same kinetic energy as a .45-cal Pistol (450 ft-lbs). From that perspective, I think the 195 MKZ excels for the amount of KE it has.

thats not a bad way of looking at it/comparing.... you would use .45LC up close for head shooting or place bullets in boiler room and wait for results.

Elvis wrote:

you would use .45LC up close for head shooting or place bullets in boiler room and wait for results.

I didn't have to wait for this last hog to drop. There is a significant difference between this bullet and a .45 slug. The MKZ is a much larger diameter, with 3 petals (blades), and spinning at a much faster rate. One of my hunting buddies likened it to a rotor-rooter.

Slim,

that is some very impressive bullet performance right there! Until reading your posts, I never knew such a bullet existed, specifically for sub-sonic loads! Thank you for taking the time to do the "expansion tests" and showing us first hand exactly what those bullets do...