Subsonic for hunting?

Aloysius · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 3:35 am Post subject: Re: Subsonic for hunting?

Vince, I don't have that Lee key, I have the Lyman mould. But when I should have that Lee key I think I would have tried to drill a hole in that middle support of the slug and tie a short piece of rope on that support. In my mind I see that rope help as an extra cushion inside the barrel and as a stabilizer during the flight.
Often the slug is fixed to its wad so the wad is acting as stabilizer.

You see: never to old to try something new and even old men can get fresh ideas, especially when they make things cheaper Smile

and you know how many different ropes you can try for this? In different lenghts...

Vince · Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Subsonic for hunting?

Aloysius wrote:

Look, this is how "nuts" discuss things... you start with subsonic for hunting and you get wise things about rifled barrels and chokes, even about barrels of battle ships and tanks... Smile

BTW: I've been told that they also had a kind of insert barrel for tanks that allows to shoot .30 ammo... a friend (a few years older than me) used that to shoot at crows when he was in the military... some people think about hunting all the time and they try to use everything that's available Smile

Yes, the military uses sub-calibre devices in many of its weapons. I remember seeing two M113A1 Armoured Personnel Carriers fitted with 76mm cannons, pull up to the large sandpit beside our pistol range on the Range Complex. The guys jumped out and proceeded to put little toy Matchbox model cars in the sandpit. They then went through the entire process of sighting, loading and firing the gun at the models…with a .22 rimfire sub-cal barrel fitted inside the 76mm barrel. We had a good laugh at that.

That idea with fitting a tail is interesting mate…I’ll have to give it a try. I have some nylon cord about 2mm thick…I’ll give it a try, fitting about 6”, or thereabouts, to the back of the slug. It’s a little like a kite…it won’t fly without a “tail” fitted.

Now, getting back on topic…I have to load up some more .303 rounds with both 150gr SP and some 174gr SP to see which powder/bullet combination works best. If I can’t get a satisfactory load (I’ll be happy with around 3” groups at 100m which is much better than factory expectations/specs), I’ll stick to buying the PPU Factory Loads. Their 174gr FMJ shoots very well out of my #5 SMLE and both the 150gr SP and 180gr SP factory offerings fall within that 3” group sizing.

Once I’ve done that, I’ll look at some subsonic loads that I can use at the range for general plinking or “coupe de grace” loads as Elvis does. I have to sort some sub loads because the #5 Jungle Carbine in just EVIL off the bench. My shoulder is sore for a few days after a range session. I seriously doubt that subsonic loads for the #5 Jungle Carbine would have the accuracy or power to be of any great use in a hunting scenario, but on the range they should be good.

Aloysius · Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:18 am Post subject: Re: Subsonic for hunting?

Vince, the .303 Br is easy: put a new primer, fill the case completely with FF-blackpowder and push a lead bullet on top. Your shoulder will like it and you'll be amazed how much power you send down range.

The disadvantage: you have to clean the barrel afterwards with hot soapy water. But my jungle Lee Enfield was born in 1918 (or was it 1916? I have to look) and still appreciates a good wash with hot soapy water Smile

Don't try to get the same amount of BP in that case as they originally used, because that's not possible.

I think when we old farts would write everything we tried down in a book, some would not believe we are still alive, others will not believe us at all and some will be amazed about all the "new" different possibilities...

forgot to say: clean your brass cases (soon) afterwards with oxy-clean and hot water. And make only the rounds you're going to use. Maybe it's my blackpowder, but once the round is loaded with BP the case seems to oxydise inside. And that's strange because the old loads with BP-sticks inside didn't seem to have this problem. Perhaps they knew tricks I don't know?

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5951

Sulfur, water and metal don't go well together. Cordite used for the longest time in the 303 doesn't contain sulfur compounds.

As for cleaning bores with black powder fouling. Have you ever tried Moose Milk?

Elvis · Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Subsonic for hunting?

great photo...

Aloysius · Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:50 am Post subject: Re: Subsonic for hunting?

we don't have moose... yet Smile

we already have wolves, even lynx are coming... next in line bears? and then moose or bisons?
but will they stay? we also get more and more people...

I've heard about moose milk but didn't try it yet.
It's strange how little I buy to shoot black powder.

gelandangan · Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Subsonic for hunting?

moose milk !!! Strewth !!

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5951

Moose milk is often some combination of Ballistol, Murhpys Oil Soap, Rubbing alcohol, castor oil, witch hazel and water.

To clean the bore of black powder rifles of fouling.

Pumpkinslinger · Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Subsonic for hunting?

I'm told that Windex is good for cleaning black powder fouling. Many reenactors swear by it. After the bore is clean swab it with T/C Bore Butter. Petroleum products react with the fouling and make it hard. Bore Butter helps keep it soft.

I usually used hydrogen peroxide to clean the bore of my muskets. Then the Bore Butter to protect it.

And .58 cal muskets are subsonic...

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5951

The P-1853 Enfield loaded with then issued RFG powder shot at a velocity of about 1,265fps.

Modern black powder made of Maple rather then Dogwood charcoal limits them to subsonic speeds.

Brett Gibbons has a fascinating book "Like Fire and Powder" talking about British experiments and manufacturing of black powder in the 19th century.

I will keep bore butter in mind. Never thought of using it.

Elvis · Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:12 am Post subject: Re: Subsonic for hunting?

I will dig out link for you Dimitri great web page with home rolled recipe and instructions.... lots to learn ,my last batch of homerolled was still a little damp...and as Aloysis aluded to earlier I also got corrosion around primers..I asked about it on here ages ago and no one had seen it before..guess I now know reason....

Elvis · Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:14 am Post subject: Re: Subsonic for hunting?

web.archive.org/web/20..._menu.html

Dimitri · Super Member Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5951

Elvis wrote:

https://web.archive.org/web/20110520014651/http://musketeer.ch/blackpowder/bp_menu.html

Thank you, I'll give it a good read over the weekend.