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learn from this PLEASE
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Elvis
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Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9276
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:57 pm    Post subject: learn from this PLEASE Reply with quote

A trusted mate,who taught me how to reload and has been my go to guy for 20plus years for reloading info is in declining health...recently I was given a container of powder by him..."its H1000" he says
I get it home and have a look/smell....reasonably new stuff,he has always bought 4-5 tins and blended them together so its uniform and wont change over time as change tins.....
I ummed n agggrrred over trying it as already have good load and plenty of powder to use in 270
but thought why not...I can always give it away....
so loaded up 3 loads at 61grns behind a 130grn nosler projectile 3 grns below book max...only load listed in manual infact...
now this rifle always sits up at max or just over..loose bore and long throat....
first up fired three of my normal loads...under inch group,not bad for 4x scope and 30 year old rifle
then touched off new load wtf wtf not so good...got face full of grit.
bolt wouldnt open....
went home knowing Ive stuffed ,up but not sure how badly. Sad Sad
tapped bolt open with rubber mallet...not good sign
bolt would open inch then stop..... Mad Mad Mad maybe Ive twisted action.....
got old steel cleaning rod with no handle and tapped down onto inside of case...yip bolt came open but case stuck to it...and small bit of metal came out...the extractor.....
managed to get bolt out of rifle and case is well and truely jammed into bolt head,its expanded into bolt face cavity
pulled remaining 5 loads and triple checked I had weights correct...yes they were spot on as knew they would be.
will take to gunsmith and see if she can be rectified,at this stage Im not hopeful. Sad Sad
my back lawn just got fed 10lb of powder from 3 different containers from same source..........Im tight with money and it hurt to dump stuff,but cant take risk something else isnt wrong.
I got away with it this time,wearing glasses posibly saved my eyes,the rifle can be replaced,my life is still here,my eyesight ok the er ringing more than usual even with earmuffs
take care guys n gals....

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pete4d
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Joined: Nov 27, 2011
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Location: Dixie , Alabama , & Louisiana

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: learn from this PLEASE Reply with quote

Elvis , good too see you're still with us,, you were lucky on that one, could have been a lot worse .

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tikkat3
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Posts: 800

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: learn from this PLEASE Reply with quote

Very lucky, good that you can still read and type
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Vince
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Joined: May 25, 2005
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Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: learn from this PLEASE Reply with quote

Hmmm...I’m wondering if your mate may have inadvertently mixed in some different powder with the H1000 when he blended/mixed the tins of powder. Or, was the powder what he said it to be? His memory may not be so good with his declining health mate. It’s terrible to watch this happen to an old friend, but I suppose it’s a part of life we all must face one day.

There is a fair bit of info “out there” that says H1000 with 130gr pills is a good combination with some very good results claimed, however I note that Nosler don’t list this powder for their bullets. This leads me to think that the powder your mate says I’d H1000 may very well not be exactly that. I’m leaning strongly towards an unknown powder accidentally finding its way into the mix.

I feel your pain at having to dump 10kg of what is most likely still very usable powder, but as it’s really an unknown blend, it’s the safest and smartest thing to do.

I think your rifle is saveable, but not without some stringent inspection and measurements to ensure nothing is now out of spec. As a thought, maybe now is the time to consider re-barrelling given its loose bore and throat, although you’ll need to make sure the rest of the action is in spec.

At least you have not done yourself a mischief mate...good drills with your basic safety precautions.

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Gil Martin
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Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 1841
Location: Schnecksville, PA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: learn from this PLEASE Reply with quote

I hate it when that happens. You really lucked out and perhaps should buy lottery tickets. Take care and all the best...
Gil

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Pumpkinslinger
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Joined: Sep 22, 2007
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Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: learn from this PLEASE Reply with quote

Glad you weren't hurt Elvis! We just had a similar discussion about the powders that my recently deceased friend has. I planned to buy a lot of his reloading supplies from his wife. With his cognitive problems I decided to dump any powders that are not factory sealed. There's simply no telling what might have accidently gotten poured into the wrong canister. The same with any reloads I find, unless they are dated from many years back. Even then I may just pull all of the bullets and save what components I can.

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Elvis
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Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:57 am    Post subject: Re: learn from this PLEASE Reply with quote

will see what cost is going to be to give it new life.... as bolt has been damaged,the wee extractor claw bit has broken out end of bolt lug....it might be more costly to fix then just replace.....I might be able to find same model and just put my stock on it and "call it my rifle still"...like Barry Crumps axe...it had three new handles and two new heads,but was still same axe lol.
I can buy a brand spanking new mossberg 4x4 in .270 for $700 which is about same price as new barrel....... will just have to wait and see what gunsmith says.meanwhile I will keep eye on 2nd hand market places for another of same specs.....wouldnt worry me two hoots if a 30/06 pops up either......
patience isnt my strongest point.
Ive had 32 years of faithful service from this rifle..... if it can be fixed for reasonable price it will be,but Im resigned to it being a dead wall hanger....the bolt with case still jammed in it would be great on wall infront of my reloading bench to remind me to ALWAYS be certain in future.

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Aloysius
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Joined: Nov 03, 2009
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Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: learn from this PLEASE Reply with quote

Vince wrote:

I feel your pain at having to dump 10kg of what is most likely still very usable powder, but as it’s really an unknown blend, it’s the safest and smartest thing to do.


Just an extra opinion: there are more things that can be used as fertilizer, but there are not many fertilizers you can use to burn a drawing on a wooden plate... or maybe there are other methods to make it useful...

I know I'm old and don't like to waste things, so I would have tried to find other solutions... even when this evil powder had already ruined my favorite rifle...
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English Mike
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Joined: Jan 08, 2007
Posts: 1709
Location: Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: learn from this PLEASE Reply with quote

Mebbe it was H110 rather than H1000... Shocked
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Elvis
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Joined: Jul 27, 2008
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Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:08 am    Post subject: Re: learn from this PLEASE Reply with quote

English Mike wrote:
Mebbe it was H110 rather than H1000... Shocked

Ive racked my brain trying to work it out..... definately wouldnt be h110 as one of the other containers of powder now in my lawn was 2225....think it was... same as 296......been sitting for 25plus years since he had a 22 hornet.

MIGHT have been 2206....... as he did own very accurate 243......
but all his load development in last 3-4 years was in wsms or the 7mm mag...so really dont know....... its fertilizer now.....

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dhc4ever
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Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 2944
Location: Ipswich, Queensland Australia

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: learn from this PLEASE Reply with quote

Experience, that thing you get 5 minutes AFTER you needed it.
There goes any hope of you winning lotto in the next 12 months.
Glad you were not injured, your pride Will recover.
Dont do that again, makes for a crap Christmas experience.
2020, the year we didnt need, just keeps giving it seems.
Enjoy shopping for a new rifle.

On a side note,
Does anyone know how the manufactures check the burning rate of powders?
Im aware the burning rates are designed by mixtures of cellulose base stocks, differing numbers of micro holes in the granules, coatings of inhibutor, size of granule etc
It would have been interesting if Elvis could have had a sample checked.
Have a good new year.

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Pete

Dont do anything you wont like explaining to the paramedics..............
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PaulS
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Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: learn from this PLEASE Reply with quote

They test the burn rate in a closed bomb. That device contains the pressure, measures it and measures the temperature climb rate and duration. It does not test it under the conditions of use which is why speed of powder burn charts mean very little in your choice of powder and we rely on tests conducted by the firearms industry and published in the manuals.

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Paul
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Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
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Elvis
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Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9276
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: learn from this PLEASE Reply with quote

old girl is toast......
ordered a new rifle today......thats something I never thought I would be able to afford,but selling some others has made it possible,and good patient understanding wife helps too.
HOWA 1500 in .270win
right off to pull old loads so can rework them for new rifle.

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English Mike
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Joined: Jan 08, 2007
Posts: 1709
Location: Whitehaven, Cumbria, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:05 am    Post subject: Re: learn from this PLEASE Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
old girl is toast......
ordered a new rifle today......thats something I never thought I would be able to afford,but selling some others has made it possible,and good patient understanding wife helps too.
HOWA 1500 in .270win
right off to pull old loads so can rework them for new rifle.

Mebbe the old loads will suit the new rifle - work up to them & see?
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Vince
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Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15744
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: learn from this PLEASE Reply with quote

Yep, start afresh mate...it will give you a lot of enjoyment and get your new pet working well. The Howa 1500 is a good rifle anyway, so I think you will be happy with its accuracy out of the box. Make sure you run it in correctly though mate...it will add much to a long life for the barrel.

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Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
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