HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: User64x
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13195

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 92
Bots: 1
Staff: 0
Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 314
 Pictures: 2470
  · Views: 825726
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 85
 

.223 Pressure Indications
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8317
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:29 am    Post subject: .223 Pressure Indications Reply with quote

Dawgdad, shrpshtrjoe, and others could help me out with this one. I was inspecting my cases from Friday's range session for any signs of over-pressure. With the large rifle primers in my .270, the primers begin to flatten noticeable as pressure builds. When there is a ridge around the firing pin crater that I can catch my fingernail on, I know I am too hot for that rifle. I don't think the small rifle primers flatten out as much as the large primers do. The picture below is all the cases from my 70gr GMX load. The top left is 23.6 grains of Varget. The other 3 are 24.1 grains. The primers don't look like they are flattened much at all but all the primers from 24.1 grains have a ridge around the firing pin crater. Can anyone confirm this is too much pressure?



.223 primer pressure indications.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  209.08 KB
 Viewed:  8866 Time(s)

.223 primer pressure indications.jpg


_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15929
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:54 am    Post subject: Re: .223 Pressure Indications Reply with quote

I would say that the pressures are not excessive mate. The primers are not really flattened and the radius of the outer edge looks almost original. I've seen primers flattened a lot more than that in loads that were not delivering excessive pressure.

As for the slight ridge around the firing pin indentation, I would not consider it to be anything to be overly concerned about...the ridge is barely discernible. When that ridge is considerably bigger and really "flows" into the firing pin passage, then I would be concerned. What you have there is certainly a sign of pressure starting to climb, but not in my mind excessively...yet.

Just my call on what I can see mate...but then again, a pic doesn't always show the complete story.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2984
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:54 am    Post subject: Re: .223 Pressure Indications Reply with quote

From the photos they look fine, but it's impossible to judge pressure by primer appearance alone. Different makes or even batches can vary in cup hardness which of course makes it impossible. Take two cartridges from the same box and fire them in different rifles and the primers appearance can be very different. There are simply too many variables and if you believe that you can judge pressure from looking at primers alone then you only fooling your self and walking a very thin line.

Other things to look for hard case extraction after firing, appearance of other marks on the case head / base outside the web, carbon traces around primer. If your .223 suddenly recoils and sounds like a .30/06, you may want to investigate your load data no matter what the fired case looks like. Very Happy

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 11452
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: .223 Pressure Indications Reply with quote

You might also have a look at the firing pin hole in the bolt face. It might just be a bit over sized allowing the primer to show (indicate) cratering. If so. Not to worry.

Your primers do not indicate over pressure. Also Primers, even the flattened ones, do not indicate over pressure unless they are cratered, show metal flow, smokey (sooty) around the primer or a punctured primer are the indicaters of over pressure, but not flattened primers.

I would have a look at your firing pin and hole in the bolt face.

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
TRBLSHTR
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 1071
Location: Lower 48's-left coast(near portlandia)

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: .223 Pressure Indications Reply with quote

Very Happy Ditto for what Vince,Omni,and Bushy said about the primers. Very Happy

_________________
"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." Thomas Mann
Back to top
View user's profile
HayCreek
Member
Member


Joined: Sep 10, 2011
Posts: 36
Location: Central ND

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: .223 Pressure Indications Reply with quote

+1 to all above.

There are several indicators of overpressure. But, primer condition is not conclusive. What I see, here, is normal. When we speak of flattened primers, we mean the pronounced loss of radius on the primer cup.
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8317
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: .223 Pressure Indications Reply with quote

Thanks for all the feedback. I haven't loaded the .223 much nor pushed the upper bounds of performance. I'll keep a close eye as I progress.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dawgdad
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 1065
Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:20 pm    Post subject: Re: .223 Pressure Indications Reply with quote

I load the 77's hotter than that.. you will likely run out of case capacity with the neck of the longer heavier bullets taking up more inside volume before you max out pressure. I can hear the Varget crunching now...

Keep going unless you have a tack driver load at that velocity.

_________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
shrpshtrjoe
Super Red Neck Member
Super Red Neck Member


Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 2965
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: .223 Pressure Indications Reply with quote

I think they look pretty good . My 70 grain TSX Load is 24.5 grains of Varget

_________________
"MOLON LABE"

P E T A
People Eating Tasty Animals
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SyberShooter
Member
Member


Joined: Jul 23, 2010
Posts: 93
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: .223 Pressure Indications Reply with quote

In addition to what others have said, also keep an eye out for metal flow marks on the brass rim from the ejector recess. It will show up as a shiny spot. You also didn't mention what primers you use. CCI are harder and the CCI 41 are military grade hard, but yours appear brass colored so I will guess they are Winchester, which are about middle of the pack as far as hardness and thickness of the metal cup IMO.
Another item I did not see is what type of gun are you shooting? Bolt or Semi or?
Back to top
View user's profile
HayCreek
Member
Member


Joined: Sep 10, 2011
Posts: 36
Location: Central ND

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: .223 Pressure Indications Reply with quote

Here's a link to data on primers. Should help in choosing the right primer for your loads:

www.jamescalhoon.com/p...essure.php
Back to top
View user's profile
PaulS
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 18, 2006
Posts: 4330
Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: .223 Pressure Indications Reply with quote

Those primers look very nice. The ring around the pin strike looks to be from an oversize firing pin hole and not from pressure but check to be sure. The primers all have a nice radius around the pocket and don't seem to be showing much in the way of over pressure.
If that is the only indication of pressure you have at this point then I would say that things are fine.
Check case growth, head separation, signs of extractor impressions, loose primers and sticky cases - those are signs of immediate over pressure. Ptimers that are flat to the edges of the primer pocket are also a red flag of too much pressure.

_________________
Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Bushmaster
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 12, 2005
Posts: 11452
Location: Ava, Missouri

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: .223 Pressure Indications Reply with quote

I wouldn't say a "red flag". Maybe a "yellow flag"...I have a Colt SAA in .357 magnum that will flatten the primers. and I mean FLATTEN with only 13.5 grains of 2400 under a 140 grain SJHP. I would need at least one more reason to consider over pressure than just a flatten primer.

_________________
I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...

DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote...
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8317
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: .223 Pressure Indications Reply with quote

SyberShooter wrote:
You also didn't mention what primers you use. ... I did not see is what type of gun are you shooting? Bolt or Semi or?

Remington primers. AR but with the gas turned off (basically a straight-pull bolt action).

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8317
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: .223 Pressure Indications Reply with quote

Thanks shrpshtrjoe, HayCreek, SyberShooter, PaulS for additional information.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.