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The official never ending 'what's my next new gun' thread.
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again! (edited) Reply with quote

OK- picked her up Friday night (took forever to get here...)....it's a Baikal made Remington SPR 100 SC4 (came with 4 chokes) in 12ga.

Chromed 29.5" bore, nickel reciever (shiny part for Wiersey Very Happy ), cool action brake lever, non-auto x-bar safety, some cheesey looking red plastic thingy glued on the front bead/post that actually pop's well in any light, middle bead is brass, can't describe the forearm but I think it's a trapazoidal something or other, stocks are walnut. Nothing fancy really but it is ROBUST, about 6.5 lbs. and it shoulders quick and points like a bloody wand. It reminds me of this lil .410 single we had in Washington. I loved that lil gun as a kid as I could carry it and not get too worn out.

The trap range was down this weekend so all I could shoot was helium balloon's in the wind at the club property. The trigger (Titainium coated) is crisp, light and brakes clean. The checkering is old school by hand and sharp. No slippy-slip. Blueing was as expected...um, yeh.... nuttin fancy. Ported barrel otta make me some friends too........ WHAT?! Laughing

It was a whopping $195.00 bucks. Shoots a treat too and am looking forward to some range time with it and if the frikin quail keep bolting at 50y plus I'm stuffing the full choke in and taking it afield annd leaving the 20ga in the truck. Also had a Russian certificate of "worthyness" and a "preservation" date of 12/2006, that was good for 24 mos. Ooops. Cool paperwork though. It is definitely Euro Block made. Very tight and hard to close. It's getting there though, common with these I hear. Remy don't import them anymore so...this might be the last of these once these batches run dry at Bud's and Davidson's etc....

This is what it looks like and I have some better pics being developed.



I also have a question for the gun gurus here:

Running a patch from breech to muzzel: as the swab gets to the ported part the pushing effort is reduced, like the bore gets bigger, then tapers back down and effort increases ...then out the choke at the muzzle. Aint never had a ported barrel before and it sure felt strange.

I need to know if any of you have heard or seen/felt anything like this before? I'm wondering if they tried to hone the burrs off from the port job and ended up hour-glassing the bore/barrel. Confused God I hope not. I've googled this condition to death and cant find any info on this...

Any ideas?
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wiersy111
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again! (edited) Reply with quote

is it a single shot or side by side?

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The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again! (edited) Reply with quote

Is it backbored maybe?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...erminology

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again! (edited) Reply with quote

Single shot sporting gun, Mr. 111....


Pumper- I kinda had that suspicion but can't really nail down where exaclty in the barrel the back-bore is done. I realise the objective is to reduce stress/ease the ride for the pellet load. But my barrel tapers down from breech to muzzle, then opens up some by the porting then tapers back down again as it approaches the choke. Really odd. I'm going to pattern it next week and my bud has some bore dial indicators I'm going to use as well and get some exact dimensions.
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wiersy111
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again! (edited) Reply with quote

I would love one like that in a side by side.

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The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again! (edited) Reply with quote

If it's back bored inside diameter should be in the .745 range, if not in the .725 range. (12ga)

If your able to measure the inside diameter of your chokes (muzzle end)...........add .035 for full, .018 for modified, or .010 for improved cylinder and this should get you close or in the ballpark of your bore diameter !!!

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again! (edited) Reply with quote

wiersy111 wrote:
I would love one like that in a side by side.

Bud's should have them, it's the SPR 210 field gun.
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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:47 am    Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again! (edited) Reply with quote

Thank's 221... I'm more curious as to exactly where in the bore all this back-boring is done....kinda seems like reinventing the wheel to me. Birds been dying for a long time before even plastic shot shells came along, much less back-boring.

Ok- here's some shots... it sat in a box for almost 3 years. Russian date of "presevervation" was 12/06. Poor thing. It was all alone and w/o a home. So well calll this one the "Orphan". It caught my eye, I had to get it.
This is my last "cheap-o" firearm for now....I'm selling another bike soon and saving for a nicer gun....it's a toss up between the Mossy Silver Reserve Field or the Savage 512 Goldwing.

Remington- Made in Russia by Baikal (pardon the lint balls I still aint vacumed that blanket Laughing ):



Not a bad looker for 195$, the gun not the foot- that was extra... it's gonna be a hoot on the range. Was even thinking of hunting with it. One shot, one kill, or one miss..... just like the old days.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again! (edited) Reply with quote

The term “Back Bored” can be misleading !!!
As I’m sure you know, a barrel consist of the chamber, forcing cone, bore, and the choke. In a standard bore 12ga. The bore diameter is approx. 0.725 the entire length of the bore. In a back bored barrel this diameter is approx. 0.745.
There isn’t a certain area in the bore that’s back bored, it’s a term that references the barrel itself !!!

Also keep in mind that the forcing cone and the choke tubes are usually longer in a back bored barrel. This helps aid in the theory of a gradual taper creates less felt recoil and better patterns.

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wiersy111
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again! (edited) Reply with quote

Do they have a web site?

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A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America " for an amount of "up to and including my life."

US ARMY RETIRED

The original point and click interface was a Smith & Wesson.

Being "Over the Hill" is much better then being under it!
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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again! (edited) Reply with quote

wiersy111 wrote:
Do they have a web site?

Remington: these Baikal made guns are on the downlow now with Remington. They are not importing anymore and selling off back-stock through dealers. I had to google this gun and go in through the backdoor at Remington's site as they are no longer on the main menu at Remington.

Bud's Gun Shop has a bunch of them (O/U is the 310, S/S is the 210, single is the 100), so does Gun Genie but they are more $. Go to budsgunshop.com and search for Spartan SPR 210. That'll be the best price/place to get one of these Baikal's.
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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again! (edited) Reply with quote

chambered221 wrote:
There isn’t a certain area in the bore that’s back bored, it’s a term that references the barrel itself !!!

Copy that, thanks. That's what I was looking for.

All this new "stuff" nowadays Rolling Eyes
How old is the 12ga and how many ducks, quail and dove have fallen to it w/ fixed chokes and standard bores? I like the idea of screw in chokes but...the rest is kinda like reinventing the wheel if you ask me.

Did they forget there is a choke on the end? That'll tear up softer lead shot worse than a "bumpy ride" down the barrel "back boring" is supposed to cure, if you ask me.

What I do know is the gun is completely useless w/o a good shooter in everycase. Regardless of what kinda of "tricks" it has done to it.
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again! (edited) Reply with quote

Although screw tubes are the best thing since sliced bread............they did kinda take a step backwards with the results.
Some of the old fix choked barrels had a choke that was a lot longer and gave way better patterns than the original screw variety!!!
Once manufactures realized that they were squeezing too much too quick they started back boring barrels, lengthening forcing cones and added length to the chokes.
It was their way of fixing what they screwed (get it !!! Laughing ) without admitting there was even an issue !!!
Any of the short screw chokes can be replaced with a Briley Extended Choke Tube and reap the benefit of a longer tube. I don’t feel they’re necessary until you get somewhere into the area of 15-20 points of constriction. (modified and tighter)

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again! (edited) Reply with quote

I think I'd tend to agree on the choke points you made. The more laminar flow the better.

I ran the gun down the the shop to show pop's. He liked it and took a look at the barrel and handed it back and told me it was probably the patch running by the ports and same caused less friction.... so it probably felt like an area had a larger ID.

Why didn't I think of that.
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SwampFox
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: Oops he did it again! (edited) Reply with quote

I shoot Sporting Clays and am a wing shooter.

The thing that most hunter / shooters are unaware of, is that today the chokes used in their shotgun does not match up to the modern ammo used in that gun. The constriction for modern chokes has not changed and the constriction is in fact based on the constriction needed for old paper shells with no shot cup.

When you add a shot cup you add to the constriction of the shot and the cup also holds the shot together longer. The effect is that an IC choke, using modern ammo, performs very much like a modified choke using old paper shell, no cup, ammo. Thus all of the chokes you use should be adjusted accordingly.

In Sporting Clays you see a true test of the process, using modern ammo and chokes. Clays require repetitive shots of different distances and if you pay attention you can learn quite a bit from the process. A main lesson is that an IC choke in a 12ga will break every bird on a 100 round course, simply by changing shot size for longer shots.

So when you go to the field, especially for upland birds, try an open choke, because your first shot is usually close. My gun of choice is usually a 28 or 20ga with the first barrel having a cylinder choke and the second an IC. I also do not use 6s for quail, I use 7 1/2 shot.

Barrels for shotguns, especially Sporting guns, are just like engraved, ruby encrusted golf clubs, 90% hype and little to no real effect. The idea is to make the 50% shooter believe that the new whiz-bang will make him shoot like a champion.

Oh, on your low priced import guns they must leave something off in the process to save money and many times one thing left out is heat treatment of the internal parts. The Turkish guns are bad about this and I suspect that the "Russian" / "Remington" stuff made in Turkey is just the same. Probably why Remington has pulled them, the warranty issue.
Best,
Ed

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