HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: patrad69
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13133

People Online:
Members: 1
Visitors: 279
BOT: 1
Total: 281
Who Is Where:
 Members:
01: drone > Reloading Database
 Visitors:
01: Forums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Home
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Home
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: PointBlank Ballistics
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Photo Albums
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Home
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Your Account
32: Forums
33: Home
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Photo Albums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Home
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Home
54: Photo Albums
55: Home
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Home
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Home
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Photo Albums
71: Home
72: Home
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Forums
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Home
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Forums
87: Home
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Home
100: Forums
101: Home
102: Home
103: Forums
104: Forums
105: Home
106: Forums
107: News
108: Home
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Home
113: Forums
114: Forums
115: Photo Albums
116: Home
117: Forums
118: Forums
119: Forums
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Home
126: Forums
127: Forums
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Forums
133: Forums
134: Forums
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Home
141: Forums
142: Your Account
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Forums
148: Home
149: Home
150: Forums
151: PointBlank Ballistics
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Forums
158: Forums
159: Home
160: Forums
161: Forums
162: Forums
163: Home
164: Home
165: Forums
166: Forums
167: Forums
168: Forums
169: Forums
170: Forums
171: Forums
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Your Account
175: Home
176: Forums
177: Your Account
178: Forums
179: Forums
180: Forums
181: Forums
182: Home
183: Forums
184: Forums
185: Forums
186: Forums
187: Forums
188: Forums
189: News
190: Forums
191: Forums
192: Home
193: Forums
194: Forums
195: Contact
196: Forums
197: Forums
198: Forums
199: Forums
200: Forums
201: Forums
202: Forums
203: Forums
204: Forums
205: Forums
206: Photo Albums
207: Forums
208: Home
209: Forums
210: News
211: Forums
212: Forums
213: Forums
214: Home
215: Forums
216: Forums
217: Your Account
218: Home
219: Forums
220: Home
221: Forums
222: Your Account
223: Forums
224: Forums
225: Forums
226: Forums
227: Forums
228: Forums
229: Forums
230: Photo Albums
231: Home
232: Forums
233: Forums
234: Forums
235: Forums
236: Forums
237: Forums
238: Forums
239: Forums
240: Forums
241: Forums
242: Your Account
243: Forums
244: Forums
245: Forums
246: Forums
247: Forums
248: Forums
249: Forums
250: Forums
251: Forums
252: Forums
253: Forums
254: Your Account
255: Forums
256: Forums
257: Forums
258: Forums
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Forums
262: Forums
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Home
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Home
270: Forums
271: Forums
272: Forums
273: Photo Albums
274: Forums
275: Home
276: Home
277: Home
278: Forums
279: Forums
  BOT:
01: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2455
  · Views: 824805
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 85
 

Testing groups @ 25 yards
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:10 pm    Post subject: Testing groups @ 25 yards Reply with quote

Was in a gun shop today talking to a guy that was working up a load for his newest deer rifle.

He starts telling me about his 25 yard groups and how good they are.

My question is, does anyone else do this?
I've always started at 100 yards then checked them at 200 yards.
Can groups at 25 yards give you any viable information?
I thought evryone worked at 100 yards with a high power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
wncchester
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Testing groups @ 25 yards Reply with quote

As a general rule, you are right. But, 25 yd. groups would be 1/4 of the 100 yard group size.
Back to top
View user's profile
mikeleduc
Member
Member


Joined: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 69
Location: Phoenix, AZ since 1972

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Testing groups @ 25 yards Reply with quote

I use 25 yard groups for my pistols. Mine are mostly 4 or 6 inch barrels. I doubt a rifle group at that range would be too useful or tell you much of anything.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
hunthard24/7
Rookie Member
Rookie Member


Joined: Dec 10, 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Southeast Missouri

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Testing groups @ 25 yards Reply with quote

I usually start at 25 with a newly mounted scope. Eveything else is at 100, 200, or 300
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Pumpkinslinger
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 5005
Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:15 am    Post subject: Re: Testing groups @ 25 yards Reply with quote

I shoot a new scope at 25 yards just to get on paper and then move out for testing. All centerfire rifle groups are shot at 100. Rimfire at 50. I shoot ironsighted handguns at 25, scoped handguns at 75-100. I've been "zeroing" centerfire rifles at 100 yds but, for a "deer" cartridge, I usually set the point of impact 2" high at 100.

_________________
Mike

"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15729
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:24 am    Post subject: Re: Testing groups @ 25 yards Reply with quote

Punkin Slinger wrote:
I shoot a new scope at 25 yards just to get on paper and then move out for testing. All centerfire rifle groups are shot at 100. Rimfire at 50. I shoot ironsighted handguns at 25, scoped handguns at 75-100. I've been "zeroing" centerfire rifles at 100 yds but, for a "deer" cartridge, I usually set the point of impact 2" high at 100.

I do pretty much what Punkin does. 25m to get on the paper then out to 100m for grouping and accuracy testing/confirming with the centrefires and 25m/50m for my rimfires.

However, if you are only doing early load development without being too concerned about accuracy then I suppose 25m is ok. Realistically though, you are kidding yourself if you are judging the accuracy of your whiz bang centrefire deer rifle.

When I was in the Army we did all of our zeroing at 25m with confirmation at 100m. For our qualifying shoots we did them between 100m and 300m, although just before I discharged they got right into the WETS system... but that ain't real shooting.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
tikkat3
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 30, 2006
Posts: 800

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:28 am    Post subject: Re: Testing groups @ 25 yards Reply with quote

If its more than one shot at 25 its a waste in centrefire.
I test at 100 and centre at 200.
I use 50 to practice offhand.
Back to top
View user's profile
Morax
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Dec 18, 2006
Posts: 618
Location: Pittsburgh Pa

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: Testing groups @ 25 yards Reply with quote

i beenvery lax te past year wit shooting and sightig in, i usually do as descibed above fr pistol but nothing past 25 yards, since anything pat 7 yards is not self defense anymore. for rifles, well rimfires i dont go past 100 bu i zero at a happy medium around 75 yrds.. from there shoot itlike crazyto KNOW where it will hit. center fires or hg power if you will, i had sighted fo 200 but dint feel right too itback out resighed for 100 but know where it will hit for in between..
Back to top
View user's profile
sniper
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 18, 2005
Posts: 735
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: Testing groups @ 25 yards Reply with quote

Annnnddd...the reason for all that is: The bullet first crosses the line of sight, scope mounted ~ 1.5in. above the bore, at about 25 yards, rises to its max height about 150+- yds., then gravity takes over, and it starts to fall.

Center the bullseye with the bullet/group at 25, it should be on paper at 100, but it takes 4X as many clicks at 25 yds. 4 clicks @ 1/4"= 1" at 100, 16 clicks @ 25yd.= 1 in.

2-3 shots should be enough to be sure it is all pointing the same way, then... to the 100yd and beyond ranges to dial it in.



Like pumpkinslinger said, 2-2.5in. above center will maximize point blank range. (The distance that the bullet is no more than 3-4in. below point of aim, funny enough, with most standard cartridges, occurring somewhere between 270-290 yds. (Not a bad neighborhood to be in, imo. Smile And, it should rise no more than 3+- in. on its way to the target.
Back to top
View user's profile
ElyBoy
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 1541
Location: Forest Lake Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Testing groups @ 25 yards Reply with quote

It happened last year to me.
A fellow was at the 25yd Pistol Range with his rifle when I walked in to shoot my 1911.
I didn't know the guy, but he showed me a "great group" that he had shot.
The group was at best 2".
I congratulated him, then proceeded to shoot a much tighter group with my .45 ACP.
I said nothing, but the guy saw my group, and left without comment.

Sometimes idiots get caught, sometimes they don't, but it sure is fun to quietly shut an idiot up once in a while. Very Happy Very Happy

Like the guys said, one shot at 25yds with a new scope, then over to the long ranges where the men play.

Eric

_________________
NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
DNR Certified Firearms Safety Instructor
NRA Life Member
Back to top
View user's profile
gelandangan
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 07, 2006
Posts: 6403
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Testing groups @ 25 yards Reply with quote

The SSAA range here in Sydney NO LONGER have rifle target set up less than 100meters !!! Shocked

I have to sight in my last two rifle at 100meters!!!
Considering that my ammo are all low velocity, it is very hard to get the setting right with less than 5 shots.
Talk about a waste of brain cells on whoever made that decision Mad

_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

Do - Not try!


gelandangan.weebly.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15729
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Testing groups @ 25 yards Reply with quote

Where is your SSAA Range in Sydney mate?

Will they allow you to put a wooden target frame out at 50m Gelan? I am surprised that they dropped everything under 100m because that is where the rimfire shooters do most of their shooting. Very strange mate.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Pumpkinslinger
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 5005
Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Testing groups @ 25 yards Reply with quote

I've had handgun shooters brag about the 6" "pattern" they were getting at 10 yards... I did agree that it was a pattern!

_________________
Mike

"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
tikkat3
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 30, 2006
Posts: 800

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:28 am    Post subject: Re: Testing groups @ 25 yards Reply with quote

Some people like to make nice patterns.
Back to top
View user's profile
SingleShotLover
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 1005
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:07 am    Post subject: Re: Testing groups @ 25 yards Reply with quote

As a lot of shooters of long, heavy bullets at medium velocities know, 25-yard groups may well be larger than those at 100 or further. This is due to a phenomenon variously called "yaw", "nodding" or "bullet sway". In essence, the bullet nose is traveling out of line for a short distance before it is finally stabilized and actually "orbiting" the line of flight. Within a relatively short distance it "goes to sleep" and aligns with the flight path. Until it does so, the point of impact can vary quite a bit. This differs with each caliber and rifle, but I have seen 25-yard targets that were larger than those shot at 200 with the same load.

Isn't our sport fascinating?

_________________
If you can't hit it with one, you probably can't with two either!

The biggest problem with a closed mind is that it never seems to come with a closed mouth.

SSL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.