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Winchester Model 70 Safety stuck in fire position.
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:49 am    Post subject: Winchester Model 70 Safety stuck in fire position. Reply with quote

I borrowed a buddies M70 synthetic (post 64) in 300 WM and the safety is stuck in the fire position. It is shooting the Berger 190's under 1/2 MOA and I want to take it to CO elk hunt in October.

Lots of people on the chat boards describe this issue but I cannot find the fix on line. Has anyone ever had to deal with this?

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Gil Martin
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 70 Safety stuck in fire position. Reply with quote

I hate it when that happens. Sounds like there is a burr on the safety that is preventing its normal operation. It is easy to disassemble the Model 70 bolt and examine the safety. A burr can be removed by careful stoning or filing. Hope this helps. All the best...
Gil

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 70 Safety stuck in fire position. Reply with quote

never had an issue with mine.... but then I very seldom use the safety.
other than to dissasemble bolt you shouldnt need to use it at all.

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Loke
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:43 am    Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 70 Safety stuck in fire position. Reply with quote

Is the striker cocked? You can't engage the safety if it isn't.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 70 Safety stuck in fire position. Reply with quote

Gil Martin wrote:
I hate it when that happens. Sounds like there is a burr on the safety that is preventing its normal operation. It is easy to disassemble the Model 70 bolt and examine the safety. A burr can be removed by careful stoning or filing. Hope this helps. All the best...
Gil

Good thought Gil...but the question must be asked, why, in a post 64 firearm that has no doubt had the safety operated many times, would a burr suddenly appear? What would cause it...is there an underlying problem?

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 70 Safety stuck in fire position. Reply with quote

Judging by the low trigger pull weight of about 2.5#, I think he has lightened the trigger by taking tension off of the trigger spring. (the two nuts on a model 70 trigger) This may have changed the geometry of the saftey engagement and allowed it to jump past its notch. I will dissassemble and return to safe position and increase the trigger spring tension first, if that does not do it... off to a real gunsmith and not my workbench.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 70 Safety stuck in fire position. Reply with quote

Hoping for the best, Dawgdad. Keep us posted. On the gun and your hunt.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 70 Safety stuck in fire position. Reply with quote

I dont believe the trigger weight will have anything to do with it as the safety is part of the bolt itself,I can take mine down to mouse fart light and it doesnt change anything else......there is something about re-bedding these but cant remember what it is.....again cant see how.

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 70 Safety stuck in fire position. Reply with quote

OK - when the bolt is removed and the cocking piece is pulled back (manually with the lower tab secured in a vise) the safety can be engaged in the full and intermediate positions. With he bolt installed in the rifle the safety functions as designed.

When the safety moved to fire position the cocking piece moves forward and engages the trigger. The problem arises here. When the cocking piece and trigger sear are engaged, the safety cannot 'grab' the cocking piece to pull it back off of the sear. ( If I use a drift punch I can force it back to "Safe" but that is not really a field option.)

The source of the problem could be defined as either the trigger engagement on the cocking piece has been cut too deep into the tab, or the relief for the safety on the cocking piece is not deep enough.

I see on the internet searches for Model 70 safety this is a very common problem for rifles about the age of this one. (late 1990's).

I have seen a couple of gunsmiths discuss the option of carefully removing material on the cocking piece until the safety has enough grip and leverage to pull the cocking piece back to the safe positions.

New cocking piece $60... that would likely have to have the sear engagement adjusted by filing on the cocking piece side of that.

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 70 Safety stuck in fire position. Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
I dont believe the trigger weight will have anything to do with it as the safety is part of the bolt itself,I can take mine down to mouse fart light and it doesnt change anything else......there is something about re-bedding these but cant remember what it is.....again cant see how.

You sir are correct.

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 70 Safety stuck in fire position. Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
mouse fart light

I love technical terms...I believe that would be a bit heavier than a hummingbird fart?

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:08 am    Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 70 Safety stuck in fire position. Reply with quote

sounds like you getting it sorted Mate....... definately something ringing bell in memory bank re doing a rebed job......will have to dig out book and see if I can find it.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 70 Safety stuck in fire position. Reply with quote

found it...sorry it took me so long to get on to this Mate
page 18 of the practicle guide to bolt action rifle accurizing and maintainence By Nathan Foster
on winchester actions the safety can become inoperable after lapping (applying small amound of grinding paste to bolt lugs and working bolt to ensure even pressure on both lugs)
it is quite common.this is not too difficult to rectify but is possible a task for gunsmith - for those who are nervous about such tasks,the safty cam lobe needs to be polished just a touch to allow for the new positioning of the lugs.NEVER try to yank a winchester or montana safety if it becomes stiff.

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:25 am    Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 70 Safety stuck in fire position. Reply with quote

You have confirmed what I see on the rifle. rather than relieving the cam lobe on the safety, I will be removing a very small amount of material on the cocking piece until the cam lobe on the safety lever can engage with enough bite to push the rifle off of the trigger sear and hold it there.

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:07 am    Post subject: Re: Winchester Model 70 Safety stuck in fire position. Reply with quote

Update - I polished up the cocking piece and the inside of the bolt sleeve as there was some corrosion in between the two pieces that added friction and resistance to engaging the safety. After that - it still was difficult so i removed a small amount of metal off of the cocking piece and now the cam lobe of the safety engages and functions properly. I also lapped the lugs while I was in Gunsmith mode and now the rifle is very slick.

I re set the torque on the action screws and put two cold bore shots in the same hole 30 minutes apart. Ready to roll.

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