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#16: Re: 9mm's Author: Bushmaster, Location: Ava, Missouri

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:59 am
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Next time you are at the welfare office to get your check. You might invest in a chart and a good compass [at my expense I'm sure]...

#17: Re: 9mm's Author: chambered221, Location: Lost for good !!!

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:22 pm
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wtf

Now what makes you think I get a welfare check??? Maybe I’m just independently wealthy !!!

#18: Re: 9mm's Author: Bushmaster, Location: Ava, Missouri

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:56 pm
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Hummmm....Thought crossed my mind...Just that there are not that many of us these days...

#19: Re: 9mm's Author: wiersy111, Location: Central Minnesota

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:31 pm
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chambered221 wrote:

:wtf: Now what makes you think I get a welfare check??? Maybe I’m just independently wealthy !!!

Now that is hilarious ROFL

#20: Re: 9mm's Author: wiersy111, Location: Central Minnesota

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:38 pm
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Bushmaster wrote:

@#$%^&*....Someone revoke his "invite" permit...

Wiersy...You get what you want? I mean...Did we ,or they, give you the answer you needed...

Yea Bushy good answers.

How can you revoke Chambereds troll in training permit. Worship

#21: Re: 9mm's Author: chambered221, Location: Lost for good !!!

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:57 pm
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wtf

I think the troll thing is a little harsh!!! Nuisance guest at times maybe but not troll !!!

#22: Re: 9mm's Author: d_hoffman, Location: Chillicothe, Ohio

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:17 pm
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Pumpkinslinger wrote:

How come the "Short & Weak" has about 100 ftlbs (almost 23%) more energy than the .45 Auto?? Wink

Actually, the best ammo that I can find, which is Double Tap, the ballistics are pretty close between .40 S&W and .45 ACP;

9mm x 19 4-1/2" ----- .40 S&W 4-1/2" ----- .45 ACP 5"
115gr jhp - 511me-- 135gr jhp - 605me-- 185gr jhp - 616me
124gr jhp - 473me-- 155gr jhp - 590me-- 200gr jhp - 562me
147gr jhp - 421me-- 165gr jhp - 563me-- 230gr jhp - 521me
-------------------------- 180gr jhp - 520me
-------------------------- 200gr jhp - 538me

I threw the 9mm in there just for good measure. Pistol Shooting

#23: Re: 9mm's Author: wiersy111, Location: Central Minnesota

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:55 pm
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Hmmm interesting.

#24: Re: 9mm's Author: Pumpkinslinger, Location: NC foothills

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:28 pm
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D_Hoffman, that .45 Auto must be +P+!! I calculated 1225 ft/sec? I was comparing standard pressure loads. The fastest .40 S&W load I've tried was a 135 gr JHp at standard pressure and ran 1500 ft/sec from a 5" barrel (670 ftlbs). It ran 1880 from my PC4 carbine!

I stopped and looked at their website before I submitted this and sure enough, 1225 ft/sec. And they say that it is just under +P.

#25: Re: 9mm's Author: d_hoffman, Location: Chillicothe, Ohio

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:10 pm
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Yup, that's why I use this ammo for my on duty carry in my Glock22. It's some powerfull ammo, way above any other ammo that I researched. It's factory ammo so that the bloodsuckers (lawyers) can't rip me apart if I ever need to use it.

#26: Re: 9mm's Author: Handloader, Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:46 pm
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Actually, the best ammo that I can find, which is Double Tap, the ballistics are pretty close between .40 S&W and .45 ACP;

9mm x 19 4-1/2" ----- .40 S&W 4-1/2" ----- .45 ACP 5"
115gr jhp - 511me-- 135gr jhp - 605me-- 185gr jhp - 616me
124gr jhp - 473me-- 155gr jhp - 590me-- 200gr jhp - 562me
147gr jhp - 421me-- 165gr jhp - 563me-- 230gr jhp - 521me
-------------------------- 180gr jhp - 520me
-------------------------- 200gr jhp - 538me

I threw the 9mm in there just for good measure. Pistol Shooting

:cheers:[/quote]

Now, put those velocities and bullet weights on the Taylor Knockdown chart and we see a very different result that favors heavier bullets.

Marshall Sanow Index is another resource that sheds some insight into effectiveness. Their One Shot Stop index, compiled from LEO shootings, shows little difference between the 9mm, 40 S&W and 45ACP, but, with a decided advantage to the .357 Mag/125gr. Some of this country's top and elite forces continue to favor the 9mm Parabellum.

Doesn't matter much. More important by far is the ability to hit the target regardless of choice of caliber or firearm.

#27: Re: 9mm's Author: d_hoffman, Location: Chillicothe, Ohio

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:33 am
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Handloader wrote:

Now, put those velocities and bullet weights on the Taylor Knockdown chart and we see a very different result that favors heavier bullets.

Marshall Sanow Index is another resource that sheds some insight into effectiveness. Their One Shot Stop index, compiled from LEO shootings, shows little difference between the 9mm, 40 S&W and 45ACP, but, with a decided advantage to the .357 Mag/125gr. Some of this country's top and elite forces continue to favor the 9mm Parabellum.

Doesn't matter much. More important by far is the ability to hit the target regardless of choice of caliber or firearm.[/quote]

I carry 165gr in my Glock and 230gr in my 1911.

#28: Re: 9mm's Author: Vince, Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:36 am
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I love this thread....Wiersay....the three cartridges you originally mentioned are one and the same mate.

Now this, I believe, was before Chambered was invited by a bloke called Kimber to go on welfare while Bushy collected Social Security for being independently wealthy, or woz that 'cause the .45 was a + & + and similar to 40 something or other made in the Province of Short and Weak....wherever that may be. I still can't work out where the Obstetrician (OB?) fits into all this.

I'm sooooo confused. Nuts

Cheers, Vince

#29: Re: 9mm's Author: Bushmaster, Location: Ava, Missouri

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:50 am
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Would someone please send Vince a "play book" so he can keep up? I would, but I'm fresh out at the moment... Laughing

#30: Re: 9mm's Author: chambered221, Location: Lost for good !!!

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:52 am
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I just love the subject of 9mm v whatever!!!!
I’ll first state that I agree that today’s ammo is far superior to yesteryears......but.....

Out of all the testing that has been done on the issue I believe the 1989 FBI tests to be the best at understanding the issue.
Two key issues were finally realized. First was the conclusion they made that said kinetic energy isn’t a dependable method of comparing ammo.
It amazes me as to the fact no one discusses this.
The second deals with the wound cavity that’s created. It was once believed that the temporary cavity was the key to incapacitation. Turns out that the elasticity factor of human tissue played a bigger role than originally thought. Once the temporary cavity returns to normal size there is no permanent damage like once thought.
All of the terminal ballistics information I’ve read in regards to the permanent wound cavity have concluded bigger holes will do a better job at immediate incapacitation.

I don’t think this is an argument that will ever be won by either side nor am I trying to change some ones mind on the issue. I just wish people would understand that the data they show us are just numbers on paper!!!
IMO Barnes Bullets has done the best job at explaining energy with the 2 rams going at it head to head!!!

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