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#1: "Black" Gun Recommendations Author: hunterjoe21, Location: Miles City, Montana

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:11 pm
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I've been thinking about one for a few years, and have decided that later this year I'm gonna get me a so called "black" gun. I think i wanna stay with 5.56 NATO, although after talking with the guy running the local reloading shop, and hearing about the difficulty obtaining brass and primers, I might be open to getting a 7.62 NATO.

So far I've had my grubby meat hooks on a DPMS, Bushmaster, and an Armalite. I've looked at Rock River on-line, but don't know anyone that has one in-store. I want one with a carry handle (dunno why, the flat tops just dont appeal to me). I also like the look of the "traditional" AR style stock, but haven't ruled out a adjustable stock either (it was recommended I get the adjustable now, in case they are banned in the future).

I haven't had a chance to play with any weapons of this type since Uncle Sam stopped lettin me play with his quite a few years ago, and I haven't kept up with developments in this area. I have been given permission by TCOCOTH (The Comptroller of Currency of The Household) to make this purchase, but have been assigned a limited budget. Originally I was allowed $1K out the door, but by the time the cash is saved, I'll be allowed to go to $1K plus tax. Any recommendations are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

#2: Re: "Black" Gun Recommendations Author: Dimitri,

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:16 pm
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Not good advice cause I never owned a AR-15 and probably wont cause I can't use them for varmint hunting here (only allowed to shoot on approved ranges). But I have always wanted a Rock River AR-15 NM with a A4 Top with detachable carry handle. Maybe some day. Smile

By the way 7.62mm NATO surplus is also drying up, but if your state allows semi-automatic rifles for hunting a AR-10 would double as a big game rifle. Smile

Mind you later on a 50 Beowolf upper may make that .223Rem/5.56mm NATO AR-15 a good big game gun shooting a round with very similar ballistics to the 45-70Govt.

Dimitri

Last edited by Dimitri on Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

#3: Re: "Black" Gun Recommendations Author: hunterjoe21, Location: Miles City, Montana

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:18 pm
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Oh Yeah,

I looked at a S&W too, but I don't know what the model was. (didn't even know 'till today S&W made one).

#4: Re: "Black" Gun Recommendations Author: Dimitri,

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:27 pm
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By the way a comprasion of the carbine versions I saw on another site:

Dimitri

#5: Re: "Black" Gun Recommendations Author: hunterjoe21, Location: Miles City, Montana

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:36 pm
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Dimitri wrote:

Not good advice cause I never owned a AR-15 and probably wont cause I can't use them for varmint hunting here (only allowed to shoot on approved ranges). But I have always wanted a Rock River AR-15 NM with a A4 Top with detachable carry handle. Maybe some day. Smile

I checked out RR's website, that is exactly what an AR should look like (IMO).

www.rockriverarms.com/...N=38866276

Dimitri wrote:

By the way 7.62mm NATO surplus is also drying up, but if your state allows semi-automatic rifles for hunting a AR-10 would double as a big game rifle. Smile

Deer are the only big game in Ohio, and centerfire rifles are not allowed. This gun will be used mainly as a varminter/home defense weapon. And to fight off the Muslims if the Dems somehow pull off the next election.

Last edited by hunterjoe21 on Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

#6: Re: "Black" Gun Recommendations Author: Dimitri,

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:45 pm
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So have to hunt with shotguns, muzzleloaders and bows in Ohio then ?? Confused

Dimitri

#7: Re: "Black" Gun Recommendations Author: hunterjoe21, Location: Miles City, Montana

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:55 pm
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Shotguns (rifled and scoped barrels are OK), Muzzleloaders (no restrictions), bows (including crossbows), and pistols (limited to straight-walled cartridges .357 Magnum or larger.

#8: Re: "Black" Gun Recommendations Author: Dimitri,

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:59 pm
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Oh ok. Thanks I didn't know that. Smile

You can even get a non-full auto version of the DEA carbine as well according to their site, pricey though. Shocked

Still the NM version makes these plastic mouse guns look real good! Cool

Dimitri

#9: Re: "Black" Gun Recommendations Author: woods,

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:01 pm
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Hey joe

I have a Bushmaster lower with a 24" bull barrel 1 in 8 DPMS upper

I took off a bushmaster short barrel with the raised front sight and carry handle

The 24" barrel is very accurate with the 75 to 80 grain bullets, it will shoot 1/2" at 100 yards with Black Hills 75 grain bullets all day.

However it is very heavy. Well suited to pdog shooting from a stationary position or varmint hunting. You mentioned 5.56 but I would recommend a 223. There is supposed to be a slight difference and you will find many more components in the 223.

Also with a carry handle you are limited to open sights but with the flat tops you have to get ultra high mounts in order to get the scope up high enough see through.

A new flattop AR with any kind of varmint or target barrel will run you $1,000.00. You can get a used upper with the carry handle and shorter barrel for $250.00 and you have both, a target/pdog/varmint barrel and a shoot-em-up self defense barrel.

#10: Re: "Black" Gun Recommendations Author: Dimitri,

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:07 pm
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Woods,

Not to cause a ruckas but a 223Rem chamber may be more accurate cause its tighter, but a 5.56mm NATO chamber will allow you to fire both of them. Like all military ammo the 5.56mm NATO is loaded "hot" and will cause over pressure in a gun chambered for 223Rem. But the bigger chamber and leade of the 5.56mm NATO chambers drop pressures down to safe levels.

Mind you there is always the 223 Wylde (Like Rock River chambers their firearms for) which is meant to allow you to shoot both chamberings accurately as its tighter then a 5.56mm NATO chamber but at the same time keep safe pressures when using NATO spec ammunition. Smile

Dimitri

#11: Re: "Black" Gun Recommendations Author: woods,

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:06 pm
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No problem. Like I said, there is some difference.

Here is some excellent info www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

#12: Re: "Black" Gun Recommendations Author: chambered221, Location: Lost for good !!!

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:08 pm
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Joe

Buy the RockRiver!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The reason you don't see them in gun shops, they are built and shipped at customer request. No middle man. You just need a FFL to send to for the transfer.

#13: Re: "Black" Gun Recommendations Author: roklok, Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:37 pm
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You arent limited to open sights with a fixed carry handle, I have a Colt A2 with the permanent carry handle, fixed stock and 20" barrel. I then mounted a 2-7 Leupold on the carry handle using a promag base. I like this arrangement...........I have a choice between the military A2 sights or the scope. The scope sets a bit high but is ideal for Alaskan winters when bundled up with face masks, hood, and goggles where a low mounted scope would not work without removing clothing. This rifle has been bouncing on my back for hundreds of miles on the snowmachine including some wrecks and rollovers without losing zero. It is a solid arrangement. I killed a large bull caribou two weekends ago with this rifle shooting the military SS109 62 grain green tip ammuntion. In my opinion, a flat top AR only makes sense if you go with a removable front sight also, as the front sight sticking up precludes low scope mounting.

#14: Re: "Black" Gun Recommendations Author: roklok, Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:50 pm
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You can also build your own AR-15 using a lower receiver from an FFL dealer and a parts kit from M&A Parts or Model 1 sales. The kits are $470-$525 dollars and the Lower receivers are available for $100-200 allowing you to build an AR-15 for $600-$700 dollars configured just as you want it. I have heard some complaining about these "parts guns" but I know of 3 different rifles built in this manner and they are all accurate and reliable. If you are not familiar with an AR, it would be helpful to have a manual or someone experienced with them to help with assembly.

#15: Re: "Black" Gun Recommendations Author: Pumpkinslinger, Location: NC foothills

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:59 am
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AR15.com might be a good resource for you. I have a DPMS "Lo Pro Classic" that I like. I managed one 0.6" group at 100 yards with it so far. Factory loads shot around 1.1 to 1.5" groups. Haven't shot all that many others to compare them though.

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