Very strange world... you can grow up without even seeing an FN Auto-5 and here you have to watch out where you put your feeth...

Expensive? You can always wait till some politician forbits the use of a semi-auto or make it difficult to get a permit. We have had a few years after the new gunlaws of 2006 that you could buy such semi-auto's for less than 100 euro... it was trying to get it sold at any price (and gunshops were already filled up) or have it destroyed...

don't forget they also are available in Sweet Sixteen and superlight twenty. And never believe someone who says he can point a 12 faster than a 20.

12ga's are over rated. Lest yer knocking goose, ducks er blimps outa the sky who needs all that firepower. Also don't need to break the bank onna S/A.
Sure, nice wood and all that is great. I get buy with bargain Chinko, Russian or Turkey stuff. It wont break and the shooting is up to me. I can tell the difference in actions between the good stuff and bargain stuff. I got both. $1300.00 Benelli and $100.00 H/R or Baikal. But, it's a smoothboore. All it has to do is go bang. I gotta get the load to the target. If the colum missies? It's all me. Gun has diddly to do with it.

20 pump's rock. I've rolled big 4+# Jack's @ 40y plus with a mod choke, full sprint on the fly, rolled 'em big time on the second pump and they never got back up. Few things cling to life tenaciously as a Jackrabbit. Where I hunt these ya rarely get a second shot. It's tight enough to inhibit shooting but open enough for these things to get gone long gone. Pic'd is my H/R Pardner pumper...it was a whopping 200$ and is built like a brit shickhouse. 7.5#. Thousands of round through it the past two years. Not even a hick up!
They also make 'em in defense modles with changeable barrels if I reacll so one gun does it all.
e.g.:

good call on the H&R Stovie I have one in .12ga and love it. trhe dream is to get a rifled barrel for it aswell for those wet days hunting in the bush. the gun is heavy enough to soak up the recoil of hot 3" loads but not too heavy to lug around after bunnies. Ive fitted a sling for those long walks ,have a good look at one, try one but beware you will probably not want to give it back after.

stovepipe wrote:

12ga's are over rated. Lest yer knocking goose, ducks er blimps outa the sky who needs all that firepower. Also don't need to break the bank onna S/A. ... 20 pump's rock.

I don't disagree with you at all stovey. I've just got a bug to see what the 12ga semi-autos are about.

Got the the range today. So I got to start a comparison - Benelli vs Beretta vs Mossberg.

Both 12ga seem to fit me well. I wouldn’t say the 12ga semi-autos had less felt recoil than the 20ga pump. They felt equivalent in recoil except the 12ga semi-autos were more of a push and the 20ga pump a snap. Muzzle rise was about equal for all. Only shot 2 ¾” shells today. Pictured below are (top to bottom):

Benelli 12ga semi-auto Super Black Eagle II 3.5”
Beretta 12ga semi-auto A391 Xtrema2 3.5”
Mossberg 500 20ga pump 3” chamber (got the short barrel on it getting ready for my 3-gun competition in May).

Here are some of my initial impressions.

Benelli 12ga semi-auto Super Black Eagle II 3.5”
• The bolt release button was too small and difficult to activate with the index finger of my off-hand. Had to press the release with my right thumb most of the time.
• Jammed 4 times with 2 ¾” shells. Not unexpected for a 3.5” action and I don’t feel it is an issue because I’m only would buy a 3” action if I go forward with a purchase.
• Easy to load and never caught my thumb.
• Sometimes the bolt would lock back and others it would not. Was related to whether the hammer was cocked or not. Had a dedicated switch to lock the bolt back which worked very nice. When locked back the magazine gate was locked closed.
• It didn’t matter how the bolt was locked open, pressing the bolt release closed the action.
• Can add a magazine extension for 3-gun competitions.

Beretta 12ga semi-auto A391 Extrema2 3.5”
• Felt smoother than the Benelli when hand operating the action.
• The bolt release button was just the right size and easy to activate with the index finger of my off-hand.
• No Jams with 2 ¾” shells.
• Got my thumb caught in the magazine gate several times. Not fun. Shaped different than the Benelli (see photo).
• Has the hydraulic recoil pad ($300+ option). Didn’t see much of a difference. Note: my friend assures me that when you shoot 3.5” shells it is very noticeable. No sore shoulder after a day duck hunting compared to the Benelli.
• Sometimes the bolt would lock back and others it would not. Was related to whether the hammer was cocked or not. When locked back the magazine gate was locked closed. Load sequence was drop a shell in the action, close the bolt, then load the tube magazine (my pump doesn’t work like this). You had to use this technique as a shell would not always pop out of the magazine when you cycled the action.
• The only way to get the bolt to lock back was to use the magazine blocking switch on the left side of the receiver. When locked back in this method, only releasing the mag lock switch (make flush) would release the bolt. The bolt release would not.
• The Beretta did jam when trying to load or close the bolt but it was caused by cardboard pieces stuck in the action. I couldn’t figure out what was happening. It was like pieces of the wadding were getting back into the action some how.
• The Beretta had the smoothest trigger

Mossberg 20ga pump 3”
• Simple
• Light weight
• Adequate for the hunting I do.
The three reasons I got a 20ga pump as my first shotgun
• Also, prefer the thumb activated safety on-top so I can use it with either hand when I shoot ambidextrous

Both 12ga SA are very nice. If I had to pick a 12ga semi-auto today, I would give the nod to the Benelli. I definitely need to use the shotguns some more to better acquaint myself with the process of loading an unloading which is more involved than with a pump. Tomorrow I add Winchester SX3 12ga semi-auto 3” to the mix and will shoot some 3" buckshot.

Yeh Elvis- I'm really suprised at how tight it still is. I've beat on it and gotten it hot and used it all over the state and in Az too...good greif that gun just wont die and I aint had it two years yet.

I'm not sure but I think I can get a short tube for it...gosh.... I have to check, but the mag holds 5 w/o the plug so it would be a hoot on a tactical range w/ a short tube...I could order a regular one and have my smith snip it, loose the rib and add a marble on the end....they make 'em in with a nylon stock too.
tactical 20ga pumper...hhhhm....i smell a new project comin' on.

200$.

S/A's are allabout faster follow up, less recoil- all things being equal. And a whole lot more $$. But...we have choices so... git some! Muzzle rise aint bad at all even with hot 3" FASTEEL loads in the little H/R.

Looking forward to yer report after yer mattch!

That Mossy rocks!

Pess-checks/tac relaod's are easier w/ a pump etc....

For pure-tactical stuff I'd take a pumper over a S/A anyday. They don't JAM. For a timed course though...I can see an advantage w/ the S/A, all things being equal again of course.

Me? pumper.

Too bad ya aint a good lookin' woman and aint closer...if you were hot and REALLY nice to me I'd loan ya this for match if ya promised not to scratch it and were REALLY nice to me and closer (yes you can get a longer tube fer huntin) and good lookin and bought me beers and stuff.... Man the action on this thing is SLICK.

OG point/hard knock-kock we're comin' in gun (just had this out last night serviceing it- *chak-chak!*) I've seen these on sale used too...:

the winch defender is back new too!!!
check out H&R website for barrel options there are heaps.

Thanks for the offer, stovey. Winchester pumps are silky smooth. A 20ga Winchester pump was my first shotgun. Then I got a great 2-fer deal on these Mossberg 20ga pumps for my son and I. Sold the Winchester after that.

BTW, just put a LimbSaver recoil pad on my 20ga Mossberg. It really made a difference.

Elvis wrote:

the winch defender is back new too!!! check out H&R website for barrel options there are heaps.

Right you are El! Nice rig too, I like it! Mine holds more...hehehehehe. Right again on the barrel selection.

Slim- good to hear ya softened the blow on the Mossy. I llllike it. Shave yer legs and buy me dinner...I'll mail ya the Winny. NOT!

GOD I miss my popguns.

Hi Stovey,



why ain't you making a fuss over the safety on that Black Eagle being in the off position ???

P/S: That thing is ready to fire........."cond Zero" I think is the term you use !!!

chambered you should know better they are all loaded. golden rule number #1 treat every firearm as loaded...