I have a muzzleloader and had good luck last year out in the open, but we have different land this year and will be doing a lot of pushing. While pushing I'm thinking 25 to 50 yards in the brush and trees, no sabots, and a 3 inch shell and a fairly short barrel. I do prefer pumps and don't hunt birds, so a combo barrel is of no interest. Any ideas on models and ammo? I'm in Iowa. so I can use my muzzleloader in the shotgun season for when using blinds with longer ranges.

my harrington & richardson 12ga is plurry heavy but is a great reliable gun. My buddy has a 20ga mossberg bantum that is short, light and comes up real sweet. Ammo for the 20 is plurry expensive round here but I guess for deer you wont be firing many shots so whats a few $ here n there.

Do you turkey hunt? How about a Mossberg turkey gun with screw in chokes? I have an 835 turkey gun with a Millett red dot on it that would probably work well for deer at the ranges you're talking about. Look here >> www.mossberg.com/produ...n=products

We used scoped 12ga smooth bores with Winchester 1oz rifled slugs for years !!!
Not a thing wrong with them out to 100 yards.........also a lot cheaper to shoot.
You really don't need the 3 inch the 2 3/4 will do just fine.

If you go with a rifled barrel you'll have to shoot the sabots.

I've read, and have been told by my local gunsmith, that a rifled barrel with the rifled slugs will do just a little better than with a smooth barrel, but the barrel needs cleaning every 3 or 4 shots. But he was talking an inch or so at 75 yards. I do like the shortest barrels, just because of walking through and around all the brush. Remington 870 Express ShurShot trips my trigger (http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?i=417746&pdesc=Remington_870_Express_ShurShot_Blk_Syn_20_Ga&aID=510D2&merchID=4006#details_box_holder) but not sure on price. I also saw that Buckhammer slugs were a little better. If I wanted to shoot sabots, I'd stay with the muzzleloader. And I wouldn't want a scope, but would try a holographic type sight where I can easily see with both eyes open. You can't use a laser sight in Iowa's deer season.

I know of a few guys who tried rifled slugs in their rifled barrels.....didn't work out so good !!!

I use a 1-4 power scope, usually leave it on 2x, I can shoot it with both eyes open just as you would with a halo sight.

Again, from what I have read, the rifled slugs (they really aren't rifled) really foul up the barrel groves in a hurry. So when shooting a lot, accuracy deteriorates in a handful of shots. I originally wanted a single shot because that would be easy to clean (about like an inline muzzleloader) but then also read that different brands of bullets foul differently. If I shot 3 times at a deer and miss all 3, then I DESERVE to have to clean the barrel before trying again. And if I drop my deer, then the season is over and I'll clean it anyway. And, having a rifled barrel does give me the option of using a saboted round if I want to try it. A friend has a smooth barrel and I've shot it a few times. The accuracy isn't all that great. I wear glasses and have had no luck shooting through a scope with both eyes open, even on the lowest power setting. I have no problem with the holographic sight on a SW pistol. I guess I'll know after buying one and experimenting. Like I did with the muzzleloader.

I bought an extra rifled barrel for my 870 and used rifled slugs and for my gun, it was a chore cleaning the barrel all the time.

Then I bought Brenneke Black Magic Mag 12ga 3" 1-3/8oz Slugs and they are like night and day compared to the rifled slugs. I do not have to clean the barrel after every 5 shots like before.

Remington and Winchester also make sabots, as I am sure other manufactures do.

Heavy external "rifling" was cast into these Foster type slugs, allegedly to allow the air they flew through to impart a slow spin that would help stabilize the slug. Like most something for nothing schemes, the rifling proved ineffective, but it did provide some space for some compression if the slug had to squeeze through a tight choke. The name "rifled slug" stuck and is still in widespread use today

Omnivision !. I read that Remington makes a "rifled" round (Buckhammer) similar to the Brenneke and this was going to be my first test. I did plan on trying it against the Brenneke and I believe there is one other. I think I read that these rounds keep the "wad" (or whatever) with them till they reach the target. The spin from the rifled barrel just makes them that much better and on some barrels, they don't foul the groves as bad..

iowafarmboy wrote:

Omnivision !. I read that Remington makes a "rifled" round (Buckhammer) similar to the Brenneke and this was going to be my first test. I did plan on trying it against the Brenneke and I believe there is one other. I think I read that these rounds keep the "wad" (or whatever) with them till they reach the target. The spin from the rifled barrel just makes them that much better and on some barrels, they don't foul the groves as bad..

True, the carrier is in contact with the grooves on the way out of the muzzle, not the lead slug.

But even after trying 3 different manufactures there is still lead fouling after firing about 15 to 20 shots.

Granted this is way better, including accuracy, but something tells me there is something better.

A straight sabot is down to a 250 - 300 grain bullet. Not very good in brush. I have thought about having 2 rifled slugs then regular sabots. If you miss twice, by then the deer will be farther away and hopefully in an open field (otherwise you won't see them) and the faster, straighter, flatter shooting smaller round would be better.

I might shoot 10 rounds to sight it in, 20 if I include regular sabots. Clean it, shoot one of each to double check, then it's ready to hunt. Hopefully I'll only shoot it once then. And then again, I might get lucky right away in a blind with my muzzleloader and not even shoot it once for hunting! You can use a muzzleloader in shotgun season, but not the other way around.

chambered221 wrote:

We used scoped 12ga smooth bores with Winchester 1oz rifled slugs for years !!! Not a thing wrong with them out to 100 yards.........also a lot cheaper to shoot. You really don't need the 3 inch the 2 3/4 will do just fine. If you go with a rifled barrel you'll have to shoot the sabots.

+1 I have had good success with the 2 3/4 Winchester slugs In a smoothbore. Almost all 3" slugs I have tried were not as accurate as the 2 3/4 .. For fully rifled or rifled choke tube Sabots are the ticket there just expensive . Those Buckhammers are designed for rifled barrels or rifled choke and are less expensive to shoot than sabots.. Im going to try the Buck hammers when I get my barrel back from the smith.. Sabots though a smoothbore will most likley not stabilize and key hole..
Joe

I use a smooth bore 20-guage when I have to shoot in shotgun only areas. I tested many different slug combinations and found varied accuracy just like with my rifles. The Brenneke foster slugs had the most knock-down power and best accuracy, shooting 3-inch groups at 100 yards. I use a red-dot for both eyes open. I have a Mossberg pump with short barrel but have gravitated to an old Mossberg bolt-action, 3-shot. I shortened the barrel, installed a scout mount in-front of the action, and bedded it. Works fine and action cycles very fast.

12-gauges dominate the market but 20's are lighter. The 20-guage Brenneke is no slouch and will leave your shoulder black and blue without a good recoil pad.

shrpshtrjoe wrote:

Almost all 3" slugs I have tried were not as accurate as the 2 3/4.

We found the same......often wondered if it wasn't the added recoil though.

I don't dispute that the sabots have a better accuracy potential but I've seen smooth-bores hold their own against some pretty tough competition.