Wow there's a lot of info flying around here. I'm not convinced that the short mag and ultra mag are necessary it seems like they are reinventing the wheel. What happened to developing wildcat calibers instead of mass marketing the old calibers in a shorter wrapper in combination with super bullets. Granted some bullets are better then others but DEAD is DEAD. The last few critters I shot didn't really care that the bullet didn't cost $2 a piece. Why would we want to duplicate the 270, 7mm, 300 or any of the others? The only way to duplicate the original is to shoot the original.

You know, the reasoning behind the short magnums was to improve performance in SHORT actions... They did that, didn't they?

A fact that has been overlooked from the beginning !!! Yes they did !!!

I'll agree they gave more options but why? I'm not much on short actions so please educate me what was the over all problem? The 7mm-08, 257 Roberts 6mm all great calibers. Ok they might not be the choice of calibers for Larger game but isn't that where the 7mm mag, 300 Win, 338 and the Weatherby mags com in?

wiersy111 wrote:

I'll agree they gave more options but why?

To sell more guns !!!

I wouldn’t call it a problem but I’ll use my Model Seven 7mm-08 as an example.
Nice light and compact. Easy to carry all day long while hiking about.
Original Model 7’s came with an 18” barrel mine came with a 20’ barrel. I give up almost 200 fps in comparison to the standard 24’ tube. Now factor in cold weather.
When Remington came out with the 7mm SAUM in the Model Seven it wore a 22” barrel that was a little heavier but left the gun compact and almost as light.
With factory ammo you gain back the 200 fps plus a whole lot more.

Don't you also gain pretty nasty recoil in the short light rifle? My daughter has a model 7 in 7mm-08, the ballistics are fine for what she is doing (whitetail) if she is looking for the extra oomph the comes the 30-06, 7mm mag, 257 Weatherby and if she really wants punishment I can put a 300 Weatherby in her hands. I feel dumb just because I just don't understand the need to make short actions act like long actions, except to sell more guns.

Know what we call the 270 WSM in our hunting group? A Jack Rabbit gun.

270 caliber rifles and smaller are legal for small game anywhere, where our 300WM and 308Wins are not allowed in more south counties (not that I personally hunt there).

Only Short action I think has a decent purpose over standard chamberings is the 300RSUM that is chambered in the AR-10 platforms to give them more range but stay in the actions space restriction.

Dimitri

Dimitri wrote:

skb2706 wrote: How did slightly slower become 'inferior'. Poor choice of words and not accurate even in a stretch. Inferior because when the WSM line came out, they said just about anything to make people believe a 300WSM will preform like a 300WM but in a short action and people bought it at first, many arguments have been had over that stretch of truth in advertisements. Armed with a ballistics table of factory ammunition I made a few people upset when I sat down and showed them the 300WSM they bought to replace their 300WM was not all it was made out to be Dimitri

So at the expense of all else...faster is better ? I shoot alot of inferior guns but the results are superior. I believe there are a whole bunch of guys running around with guns that shoot inferior because they believe like you that bigger is best. You can arm yourself with anything you choose there is certainly nothing worng with a round, regardless of how it was advertised that shoots a 180 gr. bullet at around 2950 fps.

No faster is not better but the WSMs do not live up to expectations therefor they are inferior

Dimitri

It sounds more like a flop.

Could be, the base line was set at WM levels, it didn't get to it therefor it failed and is inferior in my opinion.

Dimitri

Long live the WSM's
I don't think they have flopped, failed or been inferior
the brass can hold about 70grns of some powders
and you can expect the performance that this will give
Win Mags can hold 80
06's 60grn
308 50grns
RUM's 100plus
How much powder do you want burn?
I'm sure there is a case that will hold it.
Some may just hold a Whisper.

Iv'e experience core seperation with 25/06 30/06 270 win 300win 264 win
243 its not the cartridge its the bullet! I shot a deer three years ago with a 33-300 ultra mag with a 225 hornady sst and it didnt do any thing 33 going in 33 going out. Not the cartridge just the wrong bullet! I load hornady bonded interbonds and problem solved thay will open and drive deep. When you shoot fast for caliber cartridges you need to choose the bulets you use carfuly. The new bonded bullets seem to do just what is clamed.
My boys and I only hunt big game with them! We shoot the swift the nosler and the hornady. Sence we have switched over we have never had a problem agan. The nice thing about the hornady and the nosler is there reguler (cheaper) counter part sst or b-tip hit the same spot as the bonded.
So we can practice with cheeper bullets and still acheve the same thing as shooting the bonded.

When I load I am not worried about how much powder I burn I worry about hunting performance. I guess if you worry about how much powder you burn I don't know that a magnum is the right choice to shoot. I am not a fan of the new short rounds, I like tried and tested. I still am not convinced that the hunting world needed these rounds I think it was a ploy to sell more guns.