HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 1
Visitors: 405
BOT: 1
Total: 407
Who Is Where:
 Members:
01: Elvis > Home
 Visitors:
01: Photo Albums
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Photo Albums
07: Forums
08: Your Account
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Your Account
13: Statistics
14: Home
15: Forums
16: Home
17: Forums
18: Your Account
19: Forums
20: Your Account
21: Home
22: Forums
23: Home
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Photo Albums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Your Account
35: Forums
36: Home
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Photo Albums
43: Forums
44: Photo Albums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Your Account
49: Photo Albums
50: Your Account
51: Photo Albums
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Your Account
57: Home
58: Your Account
59: Forums
60: Photo Albums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Your Account
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Home
76: Forums
77: Home
78: Forums
79: Your Account
80: Forums
81: Your Account
82: Your Account
83: Home
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Forums
87: Forums
88: Home
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Your Account
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Your Account
102: Home
103: Forums
104: Forums
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Photo Albums
108: Forums
109: Forums
110: Home
111: Forums
112: Forums
113: Your Account
114: Forums
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Forums
119: Forums
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Home
125: Home
126: Forums
127: Forums
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Forums
133: Forums
134: Forums
135: Home
136: Your Account
137: Forums
138: Your Account
139: Forums
140: Forums
141: Your Account
142: Forums
143: Your Account
144: Photo Albums
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Home
148: Forums
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Home
152: Forums
153: Photo Albums
154: Forums
155: Home
156: Forums
157: Forums
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Home
162: Forums
163: Your Account
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Photo Albums
167: Your Account
168: Forums
169: Your Account
170: Forums
171: Forums
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Forums
175: Forums
176: Home
177: Home
178: Forums
179: Photo Albums
180: Your Account
181: Forums
182: Forums
183: Forums
184: Home
185: Photo Albums
186: Home
187: Forums
188: Forums
189: Your Account
190: Forums
191: Forums
192: Photo Albums
193: Forums
194: Forums
195: News
196: Forums
197: Your Account
198: Forums
199: Home
200: Home
201: Forums
202: Your Account
203: Forums
204: Forums
205: Forums
206: Forums
207: Forums
208: Forums
209: Forums
210: Forums
211: Forums
212: Forums
213: Home
214: Forums
215: Forums
216: Forums
217: Photo Albums
218: Forums
219: Your Account
220: Forums
221: Forums
222: Forums
223: Forums
224: Forums
225: Home
226: Home
227: Forums
228: Forums
229: Forums
230: Forums
231: Home
232: Forums
233: Your Account
234: Forums
235: Your Account
236: Forums
237: Home
238: Photo Albums
239: Home
240: Home
241: Forums
242: Forums
243: Forums
244: Forums
245: Forums
246: Forums
247: Your Account
248: Home
249: Forums
250: Forums
251: Forums
252: Forums
253: Your Account
254: Forums
255: Forums
256: Forums
257: Forums
258: Forums
259: Home
260: Your Account
261: Home
262: Forums
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Forums
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Forums
270: Forums
271: Forums
272: Forums
273: Forums
274: Forums
275: Your Account
276: Forums
277: Forums
278: Photo Albums
279: Forums
280: Forums
281: Forums
282: Forums
283: Forums
284: Forums
285: Forums
286: Forums
287: Forums
288: Forums
289: Forums
290: Forums
291: Forums
292: Your Account
293: Home
294: Photo Albums
295: Forums
296: Forums
297: Forums
298: Forums
299: Home
300: Forums
301: Forums
302: Forums
303: Home
304: Forums
305: Forums
306: Forums
307: Forums
308: Forums
309: Forums
310: Forums
311: Forums
312: Forums
313: Home
314: Forums
315: Forums
316: Forums
317: Forums
318: Forums
319: Forums
320: Forums
321: Home
322: Forums
323: Home
324: Forums
325: Photo Albums
326: Photo Albums
327: Forums
328: Forums
329: Forums
330: Forums
331: Forums
332: Home
333: Your Account
334: Forums
335: Home
336: Forums
337: Forums
338: Forums
339: Forums
340: Forums
341: Forums
342: Forums
343: Photo Albums
344: Forums
345: Home
346: Your Account
347: Forums
348: Forums
349: Photo Albums
350: Home
351: Your Account
352: Forums
353: Your Account
354: Home
355: Home
356: Forums
357: Forums
358: Your Account
359: Forums
360: Forums
361: Forums
362: Photo Albums
363: Forums
364: Forums
365: Forums
366: Forums
367: Home
368: Forums
369: Your Account
370: Home
371: Home
372: Forums
373: Forums
374: Forums
375: Forums
376: Forums
377: Home
378: Forums
379: Forums
380: Forums
381: Home
382: Forums
383: Forums
384: Forums
385: Forums
386: Forums
387: Forums
388: Forums
389: Forums
390: Home
391: Forums
392: Forums
393: Forums
394: Forums
395: Forums
396: Forums
397: Your Account
398: Your Account
399: Photo Albums
400: Forums
401: Forums
402: Forums
403: Forums
404: Forums
405: Forums
  BOT:
01: Photo Albums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

Anyone have a good kneck turning process?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SingleShotLover
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 1005
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:49 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have a good kneck turning process? Reply with quote

Like many of the manual case trimmers offered today, my Lyman Universal Trimmer also offers a conversion kit for using an electric drill to turn the shaft. After trying this for a while, I soon decided there had to be a better way. The drill only created additional confusion and clutter on the bench and was extremely awkward in use. I attempted to attach a variety of small motors to the shaft...with varying degrees of success. Many worked to an extent but still were difficult to use smoothly and with a minimum of effort. Finally a better solution presented itself.

DeWalt and Jacobs Multi-Craft offer flexi-shafts designed for common electric drills. These can be obtained at most hardware stores including Menards, Lowes and Home Depot. They are approximately 40" in length with a 1/4" shaft on the drill end and a standard 3/8" chuck and a convenient handle on the other. In use, the 1/4" shaft is inserted in an appropriate drill and the chuck attached to the cutter shank. This allows the drill itself to remain hanging on the wall or otherwise out of the way and the chuck-end handle gives a person a much better handhold for manipulating the cutter.

My setup consists of the above shaft and a good variable speed electric drill (re-chargeable drills lose the charges far too soon for most jobs). The drill is suspended from a bracket on the wall and a simple trigger adjustment locks the drill speeds for various cutting jobs. The case trimmer is mounted to a 2" X 8" about 18" long for stability while still remaining portable.

I usually adjust the trigger to a slow, even speed for case trimming and quite a bit faster for neck turning. Bear in mind that too fast of a speed setting when trimming case lengths will cause “chatter” and gouges in the brass. One of the very real benefits I have found is being able to use higher speeds for the neck-turning process. Even though most trimmers offer fine-thread "feed rate adjustment", even the fine threads on these will many times leave areas of the case neck untrimmed and looking more like threading as a result of too rapid feeding. By adjusting the drill to moderately high speeds, forgetting about the feeding adjustment and advancing the cutter shaft slowly by hand, the carbide cutter has a chance to over-lap each cut, making super smooth turning without ridges. Using this step right after trimming cases also eliminates the need for chamfering the outside of case necks...the turning takes care of any burrs. You do, however, still need to chamfer the inside of case mouths.

As for neck thickness; I generally only turn enough to remove any obviously high spots on cases for field use. After all, if there is a particularly thick section of the neck on a case, that extra thickness probably runs the entire length of the case and probably isn't doing you much good either.

_________________
If you can't hit it with one, you probably can't with two either!

The biggest problem with a closed mind is that it never seems to come with a closed mouth.

SSL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
jbird22cal
Member
Member


Joined: Dec 13, 2006
Posts: 67
Location: Baraboo, WI

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have a good kneck turning process? Reply with quote

Okay,

I got around to some playing around with my dies. Turns out I haven't actually played with the .300 win mag dies. Silly me. I was thinking of my 7mm dies. any ways i blame it on lack of sleep.

I took a fired case and stuck it back into the gun. and I found it didn't seem to touch anything around the case shoulder or neck. I Dunno why not, and am not to particular as to why not at the moment as I am happy with it going bang. I figure it must be OK. closer inspection of multiple fired brass should give me an idea, or at least I hope.

I am using a full length die, and I set it to leave a small anti-doughnut and am able to chamber each of the re sized cases. So My head space neck size doesn't seem to be an issue.

I started sizing my new cases with the dies still set to leave the ant-doughnut., which didn't seem to leave that big of a problem behind.

I drew a concern though. I was thinking that if I don't size all of the neck and down to the shoulder, I suppose I could be causing a low spot in the neck wall when I turn the whole neck. I only have a Dial caliper at the moment at I haven't been able to borrow a ball tube mic. so I'm not sure.

I stopped at this point on a once fired for the purpose of the picture, so I'll try to cut it back the rest of the way as to allow me to check for this, unless you all have a thought.

These once fired cases as well as the new cases are Winchester ww super head stamped. the once fired walls range in wall thickness up to .003" in my measurements any way and the new cases are in the range of .001-.002" I unfortunately am not able to turn the necks all the way around with out going all the way down to .012" so my guess is that I probably don't need to turn them. This is 5 PCs out of 50 new pieces.

Thanks for everyone's help so far.



web dsc00025.jpg
 Description:
I used a Sharpie and turned my fies down until I got to this point. This chambered just fine in my rifle.
 Filesize:  25.22 KB
 Viewed:  6821 Time(s)

web dsc00025.jpg


web dsc00028.jpg
 Description:
I sized, and trimmed this case down to the anti-doughnut. I plan on trimming it the rest of the way back and measuring the neck walls to prove to myself that I am not weakening the case to much.
 Filesize:  21.88 KB
 Viewed:  6821 Time(s)

web dsc00028.jpg


web dsc00030.jpg
 Description:
This is a fired case I marked the shoulder and neck with a marker hoping ti get a mark identifying where any shoulder or neck contact was coming from. It didn'y work, I feel a chamber casting party coming up soon.
 Filesize:  18.39 KB
 Viewed:  6823 Time(s)

web dsc00030.jpg


_________________
"There, now it's better than new." - Harley Smith

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud

" I am not trying to be better than you... I'm not even trying to be Holier than you... I'm trying to be better and Holier than I was yesterday!" - jbird22cal
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
jbird22cal
Member
Member


Joined: Dec 13, 2006
Posts: 67
Location: Baraboo, WI

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have a good kneck turning process? Reply with quote

This is a turned new case. My cutter did not seem to have the provisions to cut on the shoulder like the forstner with out making steps. So I guess I'll just have to try it this way.



web dsc00022.jpg
 Description:
What I am comfortable with so far.
 Filesize:  24.96 KB
 Viewed:  6817 Time(s)

web dsc00022.jpg


_________________
"There, now it's better than new." - Harley Smith

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud

" I am not trying to be better than you... I'm not even trying to be Holier than you... I'm trying to be better and Holier than I was yesterday!" - jbird22cal
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
woods
Member
Member


Joined: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have a good kneck turning process? Reply with quote

Hey jbird

I would not try to turn the necks down to the "anti-donut" neck area and then stop like in your 2nd picture. That would make part of your neck thinner than the other and might lead to problems. I would turn the necks all the way to the shoulder like in your last post. After firing then you can make an "anti-donut" neck. You only need to turn once.

Question: the case in the 3rd picture looks like the neck is all the same outside diameter and from your description it sounds like you marked it and then fired it. Marking the neck or body and looking for contact comes during the chambering phase not with firing. You would be unable to tell where the contact was after firing the case.

The turned case in your last post looks just fine and it does not matter if you have a lot of chamber neck clearance, you will be aiding your accuracy by turning anyway. It will help make your bullet release more consistant and subsequent sizing will have less runout. Also, it may not be necessary to turn into the shoulder for do-nut mitigation if you use the "anti-donut" method. Turning into the shoulder always gives me the heebie-jeebies anyway cause I wonder if I am making the brass too thin in that shoulder cut.

Best process: Turn new brass (you might have to expand the neck with a Lee Collet or some kind of expander mandrel to get the turning mandrel in), neck size only with an "anti-donut" and when the case gets hard to chamber, push the shoulder back .001" for Partial Full Length Resizing.

But I do like your exploratory ideas and innovative thinking. Keep it up.

As far as the once fired not touching anything in the chamber, you have to keep in mind the evolution of the case during subsequent firings. New cases have more springback and it take a few firings to expand fully and contact the chamber for a crush fit. For instance, using a Hornady Headspace Gauge



which measures the case on the datum point



I have taken the following measurements on my 300 win mag

new cases - 2.2530"
once fired - 2.2700" (neck size only)
twice fired - 2.2720" (neck size only)
3 times fired - 2.2725" (slight crush fit, neck size only)
4 times fired - 2.2730" (crush fit, neck size then body size pushing the shoulder back to 2.2725")

So your chamber does not touch the case until 3 or 4 firings. Your results might vary because of your particular chamber and how hot your load is, but this sequence is pretty standard in almost all my guns (not WSM's though).

To me if you turn the new case necks and neck size with an "anti-donut" then PFLR with an "anti-donut" then you are utilizing your equipment in the best way and need to chase other methods like bullet weight sorting, seating depths, powder charge, different primers, etc. to further enhance accuracy.

_________________
Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians


Last edited by woods on Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Pumpkinslinger
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 5001
Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have a good kneck turning process? Reply with quote

Fellers, this thread contains good information and excellent pictures. Thanks for your efforts!

_________________
Mike

"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
SingleShotLover
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 1005
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:02 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have a good kneck turning process? Reply with quote

One more quick note: Don't get carried away and turn the necks too thin. Remember that you have to have enough neck tension to hold the bullet firmly without custom tight-necked sizing. A friend once was very proud of his "perfectly" turned necks on his .243 Winchester cases...until trying to unload the chamber after two shots left a bullet stuck in the throat and lands. There simply wasn't enough neck-tension to hold the bullet in place through the first two firings, and chambering the third one had jammed it (lightly, but enough to pull it from the case) in the lands.

_________________
If you can't hit it with one, you probably can't with two either!

The biggest problem with a closed mind is that it never seems to come with a closed mouth.

SSL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Handloader
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 1032
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have a good kneck turning process? Reply with quote

I use neck turning items from Sinclair International. They have a great selection and although more expensive than some the results are what counts. Prior to that I used the Forrester which did reasonably good but lacked the control of the Sinclair.

Neck turning is laborious and I echo the previous post from SingleShotLover about turning too much of the neck. I remove only what is needed to make the neck concentric. Sinclair also offers a number of concentricity gauges. Neck turning is not needed in the majority of hunting applications, although, for prairie dogs at distance, the slight accuracy advantage makes me feel better. Now, if I could only learn to dope the wind a bit better.
Back to top
View user's profile
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have a good kneck turning process? Reply with quote

Have been watching this thread closely, very good and on par with evrything I've read and researched thus far !!!!!!!

I've been planning a rebarrel job for about a year now !!!!!! (just can't make my mind up as to what I want )

The end result will be some type of long range varmit/target rig

The tight neck option has been a real sticking point !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have recently read about some really good results with no-turn necks in the 6BR and 6.5x47 Lapua

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
jbird22cal
Member
Member


Joined: Dec 13, 2006
Posts: 67
Location: Baraboo, WI

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have a good kneck turning process? Reply with quote

Quote::

Question: the case in the 3rd picture looks like the neck is all the same outside diameter and from your description it sounds like you marked it and then fired it. Marking the neck or body and looking for contact comes during the chambering phase not with firing. You would be unable to tell where the contact was after firing the case.

The case in the third picture was fired last Oct. or Nov. and then marked yesterday, I simply marked the case neck for checking where the case contacted the chamber. This lack of contact seen, is what I believe, to be similar to your observations. I will buy the set for my hornady/stoney point comparator for checking head space, up till now, I have not needed it, you just sold it.

I turned 3 once fired cases that have been sized with the "anti-donut" Laughing method yesterday an I have to say it cut off a lot more metal. I am now trying to bring myself to taking one of these cases to my belt sander or some other method of measuring the case neck wall before using them.

For my new cases, that came packed ever so conveniently in a bag and were bent all to heck, I just ran them over my hornady expander and touched them to my neck sizing portion of my die. This seemed to have no major o.d. effect and allowed for me to get an accurate reading. This is the method for which I turned ten cases like the last one pictured. I will trim them and all to the same length (to the lowest of all of them within the min max case length. as to allow for the most neck support on the bullet), I will weigh and sort the cases to similar weight and record for future reference. I am planning on weighing the bullets as well. I will be starting with Hornaday 165gr sp interlocks and H4895. These may not end up being the best for this load but fist of all I have them on hand, second I have been using Hornady bullets exclusively and found them to be concentric co pared to my .224 Barnes Tripple X's. I chose h4895 for it's versatility and having already experimented with the reduced loads. Which my be needed in this endeavor for proofing at first.

I plan on using a .025 from rifling bullet seat if I can still manage OAL for my magazine. (this is a hunting gun) I have the stoneypoint/hornady tool and case for that as well.

I am going to abandon neck turning once fired cases for any caliber at this time until I get a better handle on all of this. I have large assortments now of .223 and .22-250 new lots. Other calibers are just a mouse click away.
I will reserve what is left of my few nickel plated cases (which are a bugger to turn any way) for reduced loads in my 300. (a less painful way of getting practice time with this rifle.)

This procedure is for my smaller lots of ammo any way, I can't imagine turning some 500 cases in a timely fashion that are going to be fired in highly repetitive fashion. hee hee.

Wow this has been great. Thank you for all of your advice, I have stored a mental nugget of every ones advice. thanks. Thanks Woods for the wonderful advice.

I am going to hop over to midway to price out the head space gages (along with the rim-fire gage things too),the RCBS concentricy gage and possibly the neck sizing die you mentioned. I have avoided neck sizing dies in the past as for fear of getting a crush fit. Though may it may be better for accuracy, I foresaw it to be a potential problem when trying to acquire a follow up shot on a whitetail. This problem may be compounded if the chamber is dirty. I don't generally clean my guns during season unless the is large amounts of moisture (snow clogged bbl. fro corn fields) or I have noticed a drop in accuracy over a fired string.

_________________
"There, now it's better than new." - Harley Smith

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud

" I am not trying to be better than you... I'm not even trying to be Holier than you... I'm trying to be better and Holier than I was yesterday!" - jbird22cal
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
woods
Member
Member


Joined: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have a good kneck turning process? Reply with quote

jbird22cal wrote:

I have avoided neck sizing dies in the past as for fear of getting a crush fit. Though may it may be better for accuracy, I foresaw it to be a potential problem when trying to acquire a follow up shot on a whitetail. This problem may be compounded if the chamber is dirty. I don't generally clean my guns during season unless the is large amounts of moisture (snow clogged bbl. fro corn fields) or I have noticed a drop in accuracy over a fired string.

Always try your loads in your gun. I don't want a crush fit either but don't mind a very slight crush fit. It is important to resize your brass as little as possible, especially a win mag because they are highly susceptible to case head separations and resizing as little as possible will help increase case life



The reason is because of the excessive amount of space between a new case shoulder and the chamber shoulder in most belted magnums. I guess since the cases are supposed to headspace on the belt the brass manufacturers don't care about making brass closer to the chamber dimensions. When the firing pin hits the case it slams the case forward to contact at the shoulder, the case body expands and grips the chamber and the brass is then forced to expand back to the bolt face. The brass thins at the pressure ring.

If you get the Hornady Headspace Gauge you will be able to monitor this for your guns and make adjustments if needed like loading into the lands to retard the case moving forward.

I think I'm rambling and this is another subject.

_________________
Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians
Back to top
View user's profile
jbird22cal
Member
Member


Joined: Dec 13, 2006
Posts: 67
Location: Baraboo, WI

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have a good kneck turning process? Reply with quote

Case life was why I was taught to headspace of the shoulder rather than the rim. The theory is to get more than five loadings out of these belted cases. My usual way of setting dies failed in this case (the marker on the shoulder idea) and with the new added Anti-donut method I will have to rethink it. I have the Hornady Head space gauge on order as well as the case master from RCBS.

I am thinking I may end up borrowing your washer idea eventually. My Goal, and guesstimate of what you seem to be up to is. Size using the ADM (anti-donut method) while monitoring the shoulder head space, Continue this procedure until it is necessary to start bumping the shoulder back .001. Once this is in place Figure out what way to measure the already proved distance of the ADM on the case and Fabricate/acquire a spacer (washer in this size.) or use said spacer from here on out proving the adm sizing based on that spacer size.

From there on the dies will be turned down and locked in the fashion to bump the shoulder back .001 and also size the neck fully. (This will need to be assessed as it may allow for donut interference.) From there on any case needing to be Full length resized, new or fired, will have a consistent amount (within reasonable limits) of contact with the dies. Now with the dies set in this fashion all one would need to do is add the above mentioned spacer to perform the ADM.

Crimeny I hope I'm making sense.

I just have to figuer out a starting point for the spacer size. A little research will probably give me some idea. Perhaps if I re-read the forster idea or just pic a random washer and see how those cases work.

Woo hoo!

_________________
"There, now it's better than new." - Harley Smith

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud

" I am not trying to be better than you... I'm not even trying to be Holier than you... I'm trying to be better and Holier than I was yesterday!" - jbird22cal
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
Pumpkinslinger
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 5001
Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have a good kneck turning process? Reply with quote

How about using a feeler gauge to set up your dies? Raise the ram all the way. Put the appropriate feeler gauge on top of the shell holder then screw the die down until it contacts the gauge. Then lock the die down there.

_________________
Mike

"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15704
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have a good kneck turning process? Reply with quote

Been following this thread, although it isn't really pertinent to me as I don't need to worry about turning necks.

Remembered a thread we had a little while ago that may be of assistance:

Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die

Might just help with some of the problems you are facing.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
woods
Member
Member


Joined: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Anyone have a good kneck turning process? Reply with quote

jbird22cal wrote:

I am thinking I may end up borrowing your washer idea eventually. My Goal, and guesstimate of what you seem to be up to is. Size using the ADM (anti-donut method) while monitoring the shoulder head space, Continue this procedure until it is necessary to start bumping the shoulder back .001. Once this is in place Figure out what way to measure the already proved distance of the ADM on the case and Fabricate/acquire a spacer (washer in this size.) or use said spacer from here on out proving the adm sizing based on that spacer size.

From there on the dies will be turned down and locked in the fashion to bump the shoulder back .001 and also size the neck fully. (This will need to be assessed as it may allow for donut interference.) From there on any case needing to be Full length resized, new or fired, will have a consistent amount (within reasonable limits) of contact with the dies. Now with the dies set in this fashion all one would need to do is add the above mentioned spacer to perform the ADM.


Woo hoo!

Hey jbird

The link that is missing in your process is that this only works with a Lee Collet Neck Sizer and a Redding Body Die once you reach the point of pushing the shoulder back, which is what I use almost exclusively. If you are using a full length die with an expander ball then everything changes. There is no way to put a washer around a full length die and have it push the shoulder back. If you set it deep enough to push the shoulder back then it will size all the neck.

When I do it I use the washer with the Lee Collet and then push the shoulder back with the Redding Body Die, which does not touch any part of the neck. Without those 2 dies then the ADM Very Happy is non-applicable. Sorry, this never occurred to me since I haven't used a FL die with an expander in a long time and probably never will again.

With the FL die you are stuck with neck sizing only if you want to leave the ADM and you don't need the washer, just back the die up 3/4 turn and it will leave the same thing as a washer with the Lee Collet.

Hey Lee Collets and Redding Body Dies can be bought for about the same price as one quality FL die, so when you get the chance make the switch.

_________________
Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians
Back to top
View user's profile
jbird22cal
Member
Member


Joined: Dec 13, 2006
Posts: 67
Location: Baraboo, WI

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Anyone have a good kneck turning process? Reply with quote

Okay, I see your point. I was considering using a spacer instead of using feeler gages. I was planning on setting my full length sizer to the point where the shoulder is pushed back .001. So that when I use the ADM I can just add the spacer to the process for repeatability of the process. I use the hornady LNL system and am not fond of constantly changing the die settings.

My process would have been staring with new cases:

1. Full length resize at the .001 shoulder set back in essence leaving that shoulder and for the most part only be messing around with the neck.

2. Turn necks, Trim length, Record Headspace.

3. Sort by weight, neck wall, length.

4. Load

5. Fire

6. Record Headspace change and note chamber fit.

7. Re-size adding the spacer between the LnL bushing and the lock ring for the ADM

7. Load

8. Fire

etc, monitoring the headspace, inspection for brass failure goes in there along with cleaning and all of that. This is just a mental check list at the moment. I will have to adapt for what I will run into such as in the event I find I need to full length resize and end up removing the ADM ring. I may need to purchase a reamer. but then again I may have case failure at that point. Time and experience will tell. I may end up purchasing the said dies and will go through the other topic mentioned.

With all this information I now can start Loading some up and monitoring this process. Thanks for everyone's help in this effort. Keep your powder dry.

_________________
"There, now it's better than new." - Harley Smith

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud

" I am not trying to be better than you... I'm not even trying to be Holier than you... I'm trying to be better and Holier than I was yesterday!" - jbird22cal
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.