Holding a group with BP

vint2 · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

My sabots definetly look used with scuff marks and folded back petals and very little shine to them. Some the petals have even come off. Will have to mike some bullets and find the caliber. So, how do you go about finding the right components, other than just keep trying and shooting??? Smile

Pumpkinslinger · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

In T/C Encores, .50 cal, my buddy and I got 1.5" groups at 100 yds using Hodgdon Triple 7 and Powerbelts. He used 100 grain charge with pellets, I used 100 grains of loose powder. Bores were dry, no lube.

vint2 · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

OOPS! I miked the bullets and they are .450-.452, but did not do the sabots. At any rate the bullets seem to fit pretty snug in the sabot.
At any rate I want to thank each and every person that opines on this as I will read all and try to put it to work!!!! Smile

hunterjoe21 · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

Pumpkinslinger wrote:

In T/C Encores, .50 cal, my buddy and I got 1.5" groups at 100 yds using Hodgdon Triple 7 and Powerbelts. He used 100 grain charge with pellets, I used 100 grains of loose powder. Bores were dry, no lube.

Hey Mike,

That's about what we get with our Encores (as a matter of fact, it's what we get with all our T/C's using 777 and powerbelts).

diesel · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

vint2, what's your small rifle 400 primer in, 25ACP or shortened 22 Hornet brass? your first I'v seen useing them, besides me. I am using 25 ACP, 120 T7 pellets, 180 Hornady sabots. NEF .50 SS, 3-4 in. suites me. 3 shots in Va, 2 deer, one turkey, all 'bout 60 80 yds. ain't trying to shoot their eye out. put that 180 Hornady on the shoulder blade, they only stumbled about 25 ydrs. took the neck right off that turkey, did'nt ruin much breast at all. with a shooting stick,of course, at 75 Im not all that steady off hand anymore. diesel

vint2 · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

diesel,
I am using 25 ACP, and while I use off hand position I will lean on what ever is handy to steady my shot. I can put 2 shots in .6 inch and the third one is out an inch from that. I have thought about shooting sticks and will probably make a pair for the fun of it. I look for the tightest group I can get so that I have a little more confidence when I am hunting. My weapons will usually perform better become than I can!!!!!!! Smile

chambered221 · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

Vint2
I've ran into the situation that Dallen has explained. From what you said about your sabots I'm betting you got some issues with them.

My problem was so bad I was missing a 3 foot square piece of cardboard @100 yards. Moved to 50 yards and found it to be a honest 2 footer. At 50 yards I was able to see the bullets that were wide was keyholing.

My fix was simple. I switched to the Hornady High velocity sabots with XTP bullets
Hornady stock #6727
50 Cal. muzzle loader
45 Cal. 240gr. XTP bullet
Black High velocity sabot

The gun now shoots a tad under 2 inches @100 yards.
I honestly belive it will do better, but time was short and 2inches works just fine for deer inside 75 yards.

One of these days I'll get back to the range with that gun???????????????????

vint2 · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

I agree with the sabot issue, but don't know what I can do about it in the middle of deer season!!! I have noticed that they do not load very smoothly and seem to bind a little. I had keyholing with one bp rifle and had to stay with TC maxi bullets to use it!!!! This one I can use for deer and fine tune it later, I hope!!! I have not tried the Hornadys and they could just be the checker, will have to put them in line with some others I will try. Smile

Deleted_User_2665 · Super Member Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 380

Had my best Luck re; charges of 110 grains or less of FFg, with T/C Mag Sabots....not to be confused with "High Pressure" sabots.

HP sabots won't peel quick enough, at under 110 grain velocities, and will cause many a flyer.......

Hornady "regular" sabots also, are good.......

A two inch "group" at 100 yards all day, any day, is not all that hard to like.

With this Inline, which is my own build and far from factory issue...,

I'm running under just 1 MOA, with consistancy, out to 250 yards....IOW, at 250 yards I can expect no more than a 1.25 inch varience from point of aim.

Of course that's on paper, and paper don't bleed.

Here's a couple that did bleed, this year.......

vint2 · Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

Sounds and looks like you have an exceptional rifle and shooting ability!!!
What powder do you use?? I am using 777. Used to burn Prodex, but got excited about cleaner burning. less mess, etc,etc... Smile

Now, tell me all about your rifle,OK??? Very Happy

Deleted_User_2665 · Super Member Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 380

Ruger 77/50, bore fire lapped, trigger worked to just under 2 pounds, zero creep, full length bed w/ pillars, action screws torqued....M8 6X Glass with Turrets.

Factory barrel band was pitched and I made a special ramrod ferrule with a screw boss for the front screw that secures the barrel down in the stock against an embedded aluminum lug, hidden unless disassembled...again, that's a full length bed job, 100 percent contact all surfaces.

Cleaning method between shots is a couple three passes with a bronze brush, dry; dump out soot/smack side of stock; screw on breech scraper/twist in breech; quick dump again; screw on smallish sized shotgun bore mop/dry swab the bore; pick nipple for insurance.....load and shoot. Takes longer to type it than to do it, and I don't bother with all that in the Field should I need a reload.......never needed three in a row.

Load is...110 grains of Goex FFg weighed out on a powder scale. 240 grain XTP w/ T/C Mag sabots seated to slight pressure per mark on my ramrod.

Ignition is a #11 CCI cap.............

Final clean is stoopid easy/quick. Plug nipple with a rubber plug (set the hammer down on it); pour barrel full of home brew cleaning solution; go eat supper; pour solution out; break down action; send four or five Carb Cleaner soaked patches down the bore, then a few dry ones; repeat if required but seldom is.....3 in 1 Oil for storage; clean S/S bolt parts/breech plug with a tooth brush in the kitchen sink/hot water/oil those parts. Takes longer to eat supper.........

Degrease with Carb Cleaner for next trip Outdoors; teflon breech thread grease; re-oil the exterior with a light coat.

I drive Butler creek scope caps, I tape the muzzle for insurance and occasionally I seal the #11 cap with nail polish if the weather looks really crappy.

To store while loaded but unfired, I leave it at the Outside ambient temp, leave the muzzle taped...and plug the nipple with the same rubber plug above......

I have a repeatable trajectory/sub MOA bullet impact out to 250 yards prone off a backpack and can hold 1 MOA from other rested field positions.

There's more than a few key points to the System..........

vint2 · Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

Very interesting!! I am impressed!! Smile

Deleted_User_2665 · Super Member Joined: May 06, 2006 Posts: 380

Should add....

The stock came from a chunk, the forend tip is solid ebony, checkering is 20 lines per inch, finished with 20 coats of Tru Oil...and is waxed inside and out.

Easily my favorite BP build to date, and, is going to my son so I can build another...

Might will go this time with a Ruger #1 with a half octagon barrel and 209 ignition...............

vint2 · Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

Now, I have another question for all of the bp folks! Since we are now using sabots and heavy powder charges,etc has anyone used a sabot with a standard cast lead bullet? Yes, I am talking about the lead bullet with the gooves around it!! If so, what was the result, and if not can somebody tell me why it has not been done???? Confused

Pumpkinslinger · Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Holding a group with BP

By the way, speaking of plain lead bullets...

The Encore wouldn't shoot plain lead .50 cal bullets worth a flip. I realized after a few that the twist was too fast for plain lead, the bullet was just stripping out of the rifling and skidding.

As for lead bullets in a sabot, I don't see why they wouldn't shoot OK but I wonder what the terminal performance might be since they would be "softer" than a jacketed bullet.