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Bushmaster Super Member
Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 11391 Location: Ava, Missouri
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Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW |
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I rest my case...Although I would amagin that had he aimed for the torso we would be reading a different story.
_________________ I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...
DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote... |
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george20042007 Super Member
Joined: Jan 27, 2006 Posts: 568 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW |
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I'm beginning to see this discussion is focusing on caliber more so than the tool that delivers it. An interesting point of view none-the-less. I think there might be more examples of being under powered being brought to our attention than anything else. But, I do recall many stories of how people were killed with the same calibers as those listed here that some would digard as man stoppers. Even the news media here has weekly stories of how victims have survived multiple 9mm shots.
CCW instructors, as well as other defensive weapon instructors, give advice as to how an assailant should be taken down with your concealed weapon, and caliber is not a part of their discussion.
No doubt, I'm in favor of bigger is better, and I love my 45...whether it is a SAA or 1911 type (I have both and I'll carry the SW1911PD when ever I can). But, I most often have to carry .380 auto's because they are the easiest to conceal. And I believe that's why so many carry under powered weapons.
So, what's the answer
Keep it coming...
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Dimitri Super Member
Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5944
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Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW |
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George,
Thing is caliber probably plays a bigger role then the firearm I think. Sort of like Hunting rifles most are more or less the same in dependabilty but that doesnt mean a Bolt action rifle in 223 will be as effective on a grizzly as a bolt action in 30-06 for example
You need the right tool for the job and with firearms its you need the right caliber for the job.
Dimitri
_________________ A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow. |
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george20042007 Super Member
Joined: Jan 27, 2006 Posts: 568 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW |
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Right again Dimitri. But, it seems as though the bigger is better crowd may give up the larger caliber just to have something that can be concealed. I know that because I am one of them. I just can't carry every where the caliber I really want to because I can't hide it's signature.
That's the problem until the cooler months come around when I can where the right kind of clothing.
Keep it coming...
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Dimitri Super Member
Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5944
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Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW |
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George,
Sometimes a big pistol isnt practical, so you use a smaller caliber pistol to suit the need.
Mind you there are ways around going to a smaller caliber like getting a ParaOrd Slim Warthog. 6 Round magazine (single stack) and the smallest 45ACP out there (I belive). Stainless Steel, 6.5" long, 4.5" tall and only 30oz. They even have "regular" double stack 10 round magazine versions of the Warthog too.
www.paraord.com/produc...html?id=76
PS. I dont think in Arizona I'd ever wear a jacket or thick clothing, probably fall/spring weather for me even in the coldest part of the winter.
Dimitri
_________________ A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow. |
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george20042007 Super Member
Joined: Jan 27, 2006 Posts: 568 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW |
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Dimitri, it's still hard to beat the KelTec P3AT in 380 auto for concealed carry. It weighs 11.1 oz. with 7 rounds loaded. The only concern would be whether it has adequate stopping power.
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Dimitri Super Member
Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5944
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW |
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George,
Not saying the ParaOrd is better, just showing off the smallest 45ACP pistol out there
I like the KelTec SU16 rifles but I think they are restricted here and I never got my restricted license.
Dimitri
_________________ A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow. |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15715 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW |
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george20042007 wrote: |
I'm beginning to see this discussion is focusing on caliber more so than the tool that delivers it. An interesting point of view none-the-less.
So, what's the answer
Keep it coming... |
George old mate, you are may right in thinking that caliber is uppermost in most people's minds when buying a pistol, but I think that most would put very similar thoughts into buying a pistol as they do a car....
1. What brand of car would I like?
2. What is the intended use of the car?
3. What sort of power (engine) do I need to do the job..V8, 6, 4 cyl, diesel
4. Do I need a 2 door, 4 door or small bus or truck for my needs?
5. Can I customise it to make it better for me?
I believe that the same questions are applied when buying a pistol...
Brand, Use, Caliber (power), Size, Personal touch.
So, what is the answer? Everyone will have a different answer because each will have a slightly different use for the tool they are purchasing.
Just wish we were allowed to have a CCW here in Australia.
Cheers, Vince
_________________ Cheers, Vince
Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)
Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.
"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done) |
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george20042007 Super Member
Joined: Jan 27, 2006 Posts: 568 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:18 am Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW |
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Vince you make an interesting point. But, I think people make physical size more important than caliber when it comes to conceal-ability.
I too wish you could have laws in your country that would allow you to carry concealed for your own protection. I could only hope that the law makers in your country could see the sense in having laws enabling their citizens to be on par with those who don't abide by the law. It sure does make it easy for criminals to have their way. Wouldn't it be something if it were the law makers to become victims of law breakers.
I hate to see governments that won't listen to what their citizens want. What a topic, but, this isn't the thread to take that topic further.
Keep it coming...
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tracker Super Member
Joined: Nov 08, 2006 Posts: 1175 Location: Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW |
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Dmitri, I definitely need more information on that Utah ccw permit. Y'know being in Manitoba and all, any other states you know of that do that ? In terms of caliber, the old expression about the .22 that hits the mark being better than the .44 that misses comes to mind, but to me that just means get yer butt out there and practice with yer .44.
Friend of my Dad's had a nice 1911 .45ACP when I was a kid and I've had good "reports" on both the ParaOrd and the Colt Commander for a smaller .45
_________________ "If God hadn't meant for man to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat!" |
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Dimitri Super Member
Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5944
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Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW |
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Tracker,
They have Utah teaching sessons in Canada! Dont even have to go to Utah to get the permit! You could carry in 28 states with that one permit!
I'm too young to do it (need to be 21)
Email them and ask if they are going to do one in Manitoba They did one in Ontario in September I think and a few Canadians on other boards went to it and got there license just now in the mail so it is "real" if thats what your wondering.
Dimitri
_________________ A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow. |
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george20042007 Super Member
Joined: Jan 27, 2006 Posts: 568 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:03 am Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW |
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Hang in there Dimitri, your day is coming (21st birthday). By the way, when will that be? Andif your planning to get a ccw permit, I hope this thread has been of some value to you
Keep it coming...
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Dimitri Super Member
Joined: Nov 25, 2005 Posts: 5944
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Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:31 am Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW |
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George,
I'm in Canada and will probably still be in Canada when I turn 21 so I'll probably get a Utah permit just for fun.
But this thread was helpful incase I ever do go to the US and carry.
I'm 19 now, I've got to wait till September 2008 to turn 21. I'm a younging. :-D
Dimitri
_________________ A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow. |
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Bushmaster Super Member
Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 11391 Location: Ava, Missouri
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Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW |
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Just a baby.. ..(sometimes I wish I was.. ..Then again.. ..look out girls.. ..)
_________________ I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...
DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote... |
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glockman55 Super Member
Joined: Dec 12, 2005 Posts: 831 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Weaponry for CCW |
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