HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: Locolima
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13064

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 394
BOT: 1
Total: 395
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Home
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Home
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Statistics
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Forums
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Home
44: Forums
45: Home
46: Home
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Your Account
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Forums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Forums
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Forums
87: Forums
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Home
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Home
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Home
103: Forums
104: Home
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Forums
109: Photo Albums
110: Forums
111: Forums
112: Forums
113: Forums
114: Home
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Forums
119: Forums
120: Forums
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Forums
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Forums
128: Forums
129: Forums
130: Forums
131: Forums
132: Forums
133: Forums
134: Home
135: Forums
136: Forums
137: Forums
138: Your Account
139: Forums
140: Forums
141: Forums
142: Forums
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Forums
148: Forums
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Your Account
152: Your Account
153: Forums
154: Home
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Home
158: Your Account
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Forums
162: Forums
163: Forums
164: Forums
165: Forums
166: Forums
167: Forums
168: Forums
169: Forums
170: Photo Albums
171: Home
172: Forums
173: Forums
174: Forums
175: Forums
176: Forums
177: Forums
178: Forums
179: Forums
180: Forums
181: Your Account
182: Forums
183: Forums
184: Forums
185: Forums
186: Forums
187: Forums
188: Home
189: Forums
190: Forums
191: Home
192: Home
193: Forums
194: Your Account
195: Forums
196: Forums
197: Forums
198: Forums
199: Forums
200: Forums
201: Forums
202: Home
203: Forums
204: Forums
205: Forums
206: Forums
207: Forums
208: Forums
209: Forums
210: Forums
211: Home
212: Forums
213: Home
214: Forums
215: Forums
216: Forums
217: Forums
218: Your Account
219: Forums
220: Home
221: Home
222: Forums
223: Forums
224: Forums
225: Forums
226: Forums
227: Forums
228: Forums
229: Forums
230: Forums
231: Forums
232: Forums
233: Forums
234: Forums
235: Home
236: Forums
237: Forums
238: Your Account
239: Forums
240: Forums
241: Forums
242: Forums
243: Forums
244: Forums
245: Forums
246: Forums
247: Forums
248: Forums
249: Forums
250: Forums
251: Forums
252: Forums
253: Forums
254: Forums
255: Home
256: Forums
257: Forums
258: Forums
259: Forums
260: Forums
261: Home
262: Forums
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Forums
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Home
270: Forums
271: Forums
272: Forums
273: Forums
274: Forums
275: Forums
276: Forums
277: Forums
278: Forums
279: Forums
280: Forums
281: Forums
282: Forums
283: Forums
284: Forums
285: Forums
286: Forums
287: Forums
288: Home
289: Forums
290: Forums
291: Forums
292: Forums
293: Home
294: Forums
295: Forums
296: Forums
297: Forums
298: Forums
299: Forums
300: Forums
301: Forums
302: Home
303: Forums
304: Forums
305: Forums
306: Forums
307: Home
308: Forums
309: Forums
310: Forums
311: Home
312: Forums
313: Forums
314: Forums
315: Forums
316: Forums
317: Forums
318: Forums
319: Forums
320: Forums
321: Forums
322: Forums
323: Forums
324: Forums
325: Forums
326: Forums
327: Forums
328: Home
329: Forums
330: Forums
331: Forums
332: Forums
333: Your Account
334: Forums
335: Forums
336: Home
337: Home
338: Home
339: Home
340: Forums
341: Forums
342: Forums
343: Forums
344: Forums
345: Forums
346: Home
347: Forums
348: Forums
349: Forums
350: Forums
351: Forums
352: Forums
353: Forums
354: Forums
355: Forums
356: News
357: Forums
358: Forums
359: Forums
360: Forums
361: Forums
362: Forums
363: Forums
364: Forums
365: Forums
366: Forums
367: Forums
368: Forums
369: Forums
370: Forums
371: Forums
372: Forums
373: Forums
374: Your Account
375: Forums
376: Forums
377: Forums
378: Forums
379: Home
380: Forums
381: Forums
382: Forums
383: Forums
384: Forums
385: Forums
386: Forums
387: Forums
388: Forums
389: Forums
390: Forums
391: Forums
392: Forums
393: Forums
394: Forums
  BOT:
01: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2446
  · Views: 811925
  · Votes: 1315
  · Comments: 86
 

224 Valkyrie
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page Previous  1, 2
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dawgdad
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 1065
Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

Slim - If you need an accurate magazine length load... I have not been able to outshoot the Hornady 75BTHP Black ammo. If you ever are in a pinch and need some for a match under 800 yards... that stuff shoots.

I have a 6.5 twist Kreiger barreled AR throated to be 0.010" off of the factory Federal SMK 90gr. as you would expect it shoots those well but not as well as it does the 88 ELD and a Berger 85.5.

I have also shot the Factory 88 ELD's well in this rifle to 1000. I tried a lot of the same powders and determined that RE-17 works best for me with the 88ELD and the Berger 85.5's. Those are shooting 0.5 MOA for me out to 500 and I was planning on shooting a lot of 1000 yard matches this spring but Covid got in the way. I am running 27.9gr of RE-17 with the ELD at 2770 fps with OAL set the same as a factory load. I tried a jump test and sub magazine length gave the best groups... That is why I always check from 0.010" jammed to 0.130" jump. This load stays super sonic to 1300 yards.

_________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency...


Last edited by Dawgdad on Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8288
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

Dawgdad, thanks for the info. Wow, you are using 1.1 grains more of R17 than I do and 200 fps faster.

Do you have a 24" barrel?

What brass are you using?

What COAL increment do you use to test jump with? 0.030" I have been trying 0.015" shorter COALs if I don't get the group size I'm looking for at 0.010" off the lands.

I may start testing 0.005" into the lands after the experience I just had with my .223 Wylde chamber were I had a bullet loaded at 2.260" that was touching the lands and grouping 1/2moa or less.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dawgdad
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 1065
Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

I am using Starline brass and just processed some Hormady i had from factory. Yes it is a 24” barrel. I start with the Berger recommended 0.030” steps the. Tweak 0.010 either side of the best load looking for the tightest group.

I never had a load shoot well jammed in a Wylde 223. I have used 2.235” with 77’s even. Same type of jump test start at mag length then push back until you get pressure signs. I got tighter rounder groups with Nosler 77’s and Hormady 75’s. SMK and Lapua didn’t care. Shot well at all lengths. Even the 80 gr single load rounds usually group best 0.030-0.040”. Jump.

_________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dawgdad
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 1065
Location: On the Prairie

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

Slim- I had a fat finger in my first post. I am running 2770 fps with the ELD at 27.9 gr. 100fps /gr is more reasonable....

_________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency...
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8288
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

LOL, thanks for returning my sanity, Dawgdad.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8288
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

Dawgdad, your charge weight is 0.9 grains above published load data. I may look to go higher. I had noticed what I thought were pressure signs but I can recheck. Maybe more jump will help. I have plenty of freebore to play with.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8288
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

Ok, Dawgdad (and other HuntingNuts). I finally had a break from work and good weather to do a 1000-yard ballistic coefficient (BC) assessment for the 3 long-range bullets I’m shooting in my 22” ARP 1:6.5 224 Valkyrie; the 88gr Hornady ELD-M, 95gr Sierra SMK, and lately the 85.5 Berger Hybrid. I’ve wanted to do this for some time to verify the BCs I’ve derived from the data collected using a LabRadar doppler chronograph. This unit tracks bullet velocity every 3 feet within 100 yards of the muzzle. The ELD-M’s derived BC has matched Hornady’s advertised BC but the derived/tested BC for Sierra's 95gr SMK has been significantly less than what Sierra has advertised. The derived BCs for the 85.5 Berger Hybrid has been a bit lower than what Berger has advertised. So the objective of this test was to see if the bullet’s BCs improved after they go to “sleep” down range.

For this test, the 88gr Hornady ELD-M was used as the baseline for comparison and data analysis. The plan was to shoot 8-shot groups at 1000 yards and compare vertical point of impact (POI) to calculated trajectory data. These calculations were done using JBM’s on-line app along with forecast weather data. I had enough bullets loaded to do a 3-shot group at 100 yards to establish scope zero for each bullet and still have 8 shots for the 1000-yard BC assessment. You may notice that there are only 7 impacts for the 88gr Hornady ELD-M. The plastic tip broke off one of the ELD-M bullets which was not fired. I have never had this happened with a ballistic tip before.

At the range, a 6-foot wide and 5-foot tall piece of cardboard was used as a target board (saved from a water heater installation several years ago). Pictures of the test set-up and target board are below. Windage was adjusted to offset the bullet impacts trying to shoot the 85.5 Berger Hybrid (yellow) on the left, 88gr Hornady ELD-M (red) in the middle, and 95gr Sierra SMK (green) on the right. You can see that I didn’t compensate well enough for the varying tail-wind (5-9 mph) that was quartering from the left shoulder. The air temperature was 78 degrees F. Load data and recorded muzzle velocities are below. Caution, these powder charges may not be safe in your rifle. Start 10% lower and work up.

85.5gr Berger Hybrid – 2856 fps (28.1gr 2000MR) [BC 0.524, 0.500 Tested] – 2.380” COAL
88gr Hornady ELD-M – 2702 fps (26.8gr R17) [BC 0.545, 0.545 Tested] – 2.355” COAL
95gr Sierra SMK – 2652 fps (26.7gr W760) [BC 0.600, 0.545 Tested] – 2.365” COAL



1000-yd test set-up.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  279.44 KB
 Viewed:  1837 Time(s)

1000-yd test set-up.jpg


_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


Last edited by slimjim on Wed May 06, 2020 4:35 am; edited 5 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8288
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

There could be several ways to look at and analyze these results, however, there are a lot of variables involved. I found that the data aligned and the results made sense when the 88 ELD-M was used as the benchmark and the analyzed kept relative to the ELD-M. Note, this is collected data/real-world results but this doesn’t mean that your rifle will have the same outcome with these bullets.



1000-yd table results with mv.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  71 KB
 Viewed:  1808 Time(s)

1000-yd table results with mv.jpg


1000-yd test results.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  337.2 KB
 Viewed:  1835 Time(s)

1000-yd test results.jpg


_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


Last edited by slimjim on Sat May 02, 2020 4:10 am; edited 6 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8288
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

Here are my conclusions and lessons-learned from this test and associated data.

• First, using velocity decay from LabRadar data inside 100 yards accurately derives bullet BC for that specific velocity range. BC (G1) may change some as velocity decays down range but the BCs derived using the Lab Radar get me on-target.
• Bullets must be fully stabilized with enough twist to achieve their full BC potential. Either the Sierra advertised BC of 0.600 (G1) requires a faster twist (or velocity) than 1:6.5 to achieve its full potential or its BC is less than advertised. Note, their 90 SMK fell way short of advertised BC even when fully stabilized. As temperatures rise, the 95 SMK may become more stable and see a BC improvement.
• A trajectory drop analysis for the slowest and fastest bullets within each group provided interesting results (min-max MV delta). You can see that this muzzle velocity variation accounted for the vertical spread of the ELD-M and SMK showing the importance of achieving a low standard deviation for your handload's muzzle velocity. (How is it that MV Std Dev was directly related to vertical spread at 1000 yards?) The 85.5 Berger Hybrid was not a close match like the other two. It was shot last. The wind had picked up slightly and the heat waves/shimmer was a bit more noticeable which may have contributed to its increased vertical dispersion compared to its muzzle velocity variation. There is more to learn here and a retest will be forthcoming.
• I need to go back and continue load development for the 88 ELD-M and 85.5 Hybrid. I wasn’t expecting these results with the 85.5 Hybrid. It has been the most accurate inside 300 yards compared to any other of my handloads. The 3-shot group sizes when zeroing at 100 yards were; 85.5 Hybrid (5/8"), 88 ELD-M (1 1/4"), and 95 SMK (1"). Berger recommends a minimum twist of 1:8 for their new 85.5 Hybrid. I’m interested to learn if the 1:6.5 twist is too fast for the 85.5 Hybrid (maybe stabilized too much to let the nose fall through after its apex). I’ll have an ARP Valkyrie barrel with 1:7.7 twist to compare with shortly.

For the short-term, I will use the 95 SMK as my go-to long-range round for now. I have to go back and rework my loads for the 85.5 Berger Hybrid and 88gr Hornady ELD-M to provide better accuracy and consistency. I enjoy testing like this so I have more fun in-store for me.

Please share your observations, comments, and conclusions. It is always helpful and insightful.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein


Last edited by slimjim on Wed May 06, 2020 4:42 am; edited 10 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Vince
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 15457
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 224 Valkyrie Reply with quote

Slim, you never cease to amaze me with your attention to detail and real world testing of bullets that are in everyday use by everyone.

I’m looking forward to your next round of tests mate...even though I don’t use these calibres or bullets.

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 2 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.