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MacD Super Member
Joined: Apr 08, 2011 Posts: 1052 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:44 am Post subject: OAL 9mm |
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I am currently loading three bullets using W231. After checking my Lyman and Lee manuals and the Hogdon site I have come up with three different OAL. How do these look to you.
Berry's plated 124gr RN 1.120
Berry's plated 124gr HP 1.060
FMJRN 124gr 1.125
The Berry HP wouldn´t load smoothly in my M&P at a greater length.
_________________ La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle) |
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Bushmaster Super Member
Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 11393 Location: Ava, Missouri
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Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:41 am Post subject: Re: OAL 9mm |
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I would think that anything from 1.100 to 1.120 would do just fine.
I load Rainier 124 grain plated HPs to 1.100 and my carry ammunition (hornady 124 grain XTP/HPs) to 1.115.
Probably more important is what your "wonder 9" prefers.
_________________ I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...
DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote... |
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TRBLSHTR Super Member
Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 1071 Location: Lower 48's-left coast(near portlandia)
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Ominivision1 Super Member
Joined: Sep 20, 2010 Posts: 2984 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: OAL 9mm |
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I don't own a 9mm anymore but do own 45acp and 10mm, and they all seat at the mouth if the case. Reloading books vary on oal & coal across the board and one thing I been doing is to chamber a fired case with a bullet inked with a sharpie marker. Using the marker you can tell exactly where the chamber ends (lands begin) for developing a load. Depends on what bullets you use, you may have to push them backwards with a rod to get them out.
I usually take the barrel off and slide in the used case with no primer, nor powder and just seat bullet by hand. After putting the shell into the chamber, (SLOWLY) I can measure col and start by subtracting 0.020 and work from there.
Just make sure if you use this method that the shells will fit you magazine ok.
_________________ Regards
Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds. |
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PaulS Super Member
Joined: Feb 18, 2006 Posts: 4330 Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:48 am Post subject: Re: OAL 9mm |
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MacD,
I will assume that the cases have all been trimmed or at least checked to make sure they are within spacs and uniform in length. With the 9mm there are two things that determine the COAL;
1. powder capacity with the particular bullet used.
2. feed ramp and magazine length (if it don't fit it won't feed)
If you seat deeper than listed COAL then you may increase pressure and if you seat them farther out pressure will decrease. The bullet manufacturer is the only one that knows how much space is left after the bullet is seated, how hard the bullet is, and how much barrel resistance is generated unless the powder company has used that specific bullet.
I used to shoot lead bullets in my 45 ACP and they worked fine as long as they were sized properly but I had to resize some because they were not consistant. I don't know how consistant the Rainier bullets are but it is something to check too.
_________________ Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads |
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MacD Super Member
Joined: Apr 08, 2011 Posts: 1052 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:47 am Post subject: Re: OAL 9mm |
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Cases are all same length and to spec.
1. HP loaded in 10's from 3.6 to 4.0 Win231. RN same except 3.9 to 4.2. Berry's site suggests FMJ low to mid loads.
2. RN were perfect at 1.120 but I had to keep pushing the HP down or they hung up on ramp.
I used data for 125 FMJ or lead as I couldn't find a copper plated 124 with win231 or HP-38 (same powder apparently). My Lee and Lyman books and the Hogdon site were not consistent with OAL but powder charges were in the 3.9 to 4.4 range for HP and 4.2 to 4.7 for RN. I went lower for both to start. I am not concerned with RN but the deeper seating of the HP has me a bit anxious. The HP are .032 shorter than the RN. If my arithmetic is correct that means the HP are .028 deeper in the case. I will chrono both to see velocities. I went with Berry's because they are cheap and were available from the same supplier as my powder. I haven't shot a pistol in 40 years so I need to put range time in before I start trying for accuracy or join the local IDPA or IPSC club.
_________________ La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle) |
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Bushmaster Super Member
Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 11393 Location: Ava, Missouri
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: OAL 9mm |
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I don't see any problems with your loads. Maybe a small change to the OAL of the hollow points (a bit longer) wouldn't hurt.
As far as W-231 and HP-38 being the same...Some say it is and some say it isn't. I'm the latter thinking. All my manuals show different powder charges for each powder.
Yup...Been using 125 grain data for 124 grain bullets for years. No problms.
_________________ I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...
DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote... |
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MacD Super Member
Joined: Apr 08, 2011 Posts: 1052 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: OAL 9mm |
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Thanks Bushmaster. Hopefully I will get out to the range this week and try them out.
_________________ La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle) |
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Dawgdad Super Member
Joined: Feb 08, 2006 Posts: 1065 Location: On the Prairie
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: OAL 9mm |
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you can say that again...
_________________ Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency... |
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Bushmaster Super Member
Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 11393 Location: Ava, Missouri
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: OAL 9mm |
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I think he did...
_________________ I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...
DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote... |
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MacD Super Member
Joined: Apr 08, 2011 Posts: 1052 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: OAL 9mm |
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Senior Moment I guess. Darn I need to retire and concentrate on loading and shooting before I forget which end the bullets comes out LOL.
_________________ La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle) |
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PaulS Super Member
Joined: Feb 18, 2006 Posts: 4330 Location: South-Eastern Washington - the State
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: OAL 9mm |
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Bushmaster,
I had the same opinion on HP38, WW231 and H110, WW296 and WW760, H414 and kept hearing they were the same, so, I emailed Hodgdon and asked them.
Mr. Hodgdon, himself, replied and told me that they are identical powders. The different data lisyed is due to differences in testing methods and lot to lot variations. Since I was using Winchester powders, until they started changing their powders so much, I just switched to Hodgdon's powders and never looked back.
WW dumped two of my favorite rifle powders, 740 for the 3030 and 785 for the 243 and then the whole string of shotgun powders and I got fed up with having to find new loads with the "replacement powders" that I just stay with Hodgdon powders now. They may add new powders but they rarely delete any.
_________________ Paul
__________________
Speer, Lyman, Hodgdon, Sierra, and Hornady = reliable loading data
So and So's pages on the internet = NOT reliable loading data
Always check data against manuals
NEVER exceed maximum listed loads |
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Bushmaster Super Member
Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 11393 Location: Ava, Missouri
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: OAL 9mm |
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I use both hodgdon and WW. As long as the different manuals continue to show different values for these powders I will continue to consider them different. But I do understand your thinking, Paul.
_________________ I have one nerve left and yer standin' on it...
DEMOCRACY Two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for lunch...
LIBERTY A well armed sheep contesting the outcome of the vote... |
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MacD Super Member
Joined: Apr 08, 2011 Posts: 1052 Location: Canada
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:13 am Post subject: Re: OAL 9mm |
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While not exact, this is a useful chart.
www.adi-powders.com.au...alents.asp
_________________ La a'Blair s'math n Cairdean
(Friends are good on the day of battle) |
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SyberShooter Member
Joined: Jul 23, 2010 Posts: 93 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:01 am Post subject: Re: OAL 9mm |
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I generally calculate my OAL based on the bullet length and seating depth (after I figure what is the maximum length my magazine/chamber will allow).
I pulled several OEM bullets after marking them at the case line. They all were seated .18 to .28 deep so that is what I use as a guide for 9mm (XTP are short so I use .18~.20") Most 115~ 124 I use .20~.25" and then the OAL falls where it does, usually between 1.08 to 1.115 depending on how long the nose is. HP are usually much shorter.
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