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Hunting with the .223Big Game Hunting topics that dont fit other categories
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8317 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Hunting with the .223 |
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Elvis, the 53gr Barnes TSX I used come from a guy that shoots them in his .22-250 with a 1:14 twist. So long as you not hunting pigs in really cold weather you should be ok (SF will be above 1.05). Also, Barnes has a 45gr and 50gr TSX you could use also.
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9341 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Hunting with the .223 |
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sweet thanks for that.
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8317 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Hunting with the .223 |
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We had a beautiful day here in North Texas so I took the day off and headed to the range. Lots of interesting data to share. First, I shot the Barnes 62gr TTSX through the chronograph at the muzzle and then at 250 yards to derive the bullet's ballistic coefficient (BC). Average mv was 2990 fps and down-range was 2238 fps giving a BC 0.292. Second, rigged up a bullet trap and did a terminal test at 100 yards. I shot the 62gr TTSX, 70gr GMX, and the .270 Win 130gr GMX through a gallon plastic jug of water and into a box full of telephone books and magazines. I used the water jug because hydraulic shock is what makes the bullet open up/mushroom.
The 62gr was first, it went about 1000 pages into the first phone book. Its shock, however, tore the pages into the second phone book, about 700 additional pages. One leaf (4.3 grains) broke off and was sitting with the bullet.
Then the 70gr GMX was fired through a fresh gallon jug. It penetrated the first phone book and about 300 pages into the second phone book (600 pages further than the 62gr TTSX). It's shock tore about 500 additional pages.
I was impressed but thought I'd hold judgement until I shot the .270 Win. The 130gr GMX obliterated the water jug, went clean through the 3 full-size phone books I had plus 4 additional Guns & Ammo magazines. The shock tore through 4 additional magazines. There was no comparison in energy and penetration.
Note, all the bullets retained 100% of their weight (if you include the one pedal on the 62gr TTSX).
I was surprised that the 70gr GMX penetrated significantly farther that the 62gr TTSX. Then I started noticing the little things. The 70gr GMX did not have enough velocity on impact to fully mushroom (notice the hollow-point cavity still is present). I expect the GMX needs about 2000 fps of velocity to begin opening up. The water jug the 70gr GMX penetrated only had one vertical rip in the plastic on the rear side. The water jug the 62gr penetrated had 3 vertical rips, front, rear, and side plus it lost its top. It appears to me that the 62gr TTSX had more initial shock and expanded open farther than the 70gr GMX leaving the 70gr GMX with more energy remaining to penetrate with a slightly smaller diameter.
Think I'd use the 62gr TTSX on deer and the 70gr GMX on the hogs where I will need more penetration. Now its time to go to the field. Oh, Vince, I'd use the .270 for the big hogs!
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_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15857 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9341 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:55 am Post subject: Re: Hunting with the .223 |
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too right that result is impressive,
thankyou for the hard work and shareing the results
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8317 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Hunting with the .223 |
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The bullet capture test has left an impression on me as to just how much more powerful the .270 Win was than either .223 bullet. Not only did it penetrate deeper, it left a gapping hole in the phone books and paper dust everywhere. The .223 bullets just tore their way through. I graphed the energy levels of all three bullets out to 500 yards. Yes, if the conditions were right, I would use my .270 Win to harvest a deer at 500 yards. Well my .270 with the GMX bullet still had slightly more energy at 500 yards than either .223 bullet did at the muzzle. The .270 had the same energy at 700 yards as the .223 bullets did at 100 yards. I''m feeling a bit sheepish about this plan.
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_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9341 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:25 am Post subject: Re: Hunting with the .223 |
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Ive always said the ol .270 was a mighty canon!!!
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15857 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:48 am Post subject: Re: Hunting with the .223 |
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Elvis wrote: |
Ive always said the ol .270 was a mighty canon!!! |
Yup...I reckon its only about a poofteenth behind the venerable 30.06 mate.
Cheers, Vince
_________________ Cheers, Vince
Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)
Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.
"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done) |
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8317 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:15 am Post subject: Re: Hunting with the .223 |
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Vince wrote: |
Yup...I reckon its only about a poofteenth behind the venerable 30.06 mate. |
When I did the down-range energy numbers on the .30-06, it only stayed ahead of the .270 with 180gr hunting bullets.
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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Aloysius Super Member
Joined: Nov 03, 2009 Posts: 2457 Location: B., Belgium
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Hunting with the .223 |
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SJ, when you compare energy you better also take into account the abillity to transmit energy to the target. Suppose you have to take 1 shot, which one do you prefer, a cal 12 lead slug at 50 yards or your .270 Win at the same distance?
And for me I did experience a great difference in energy transfert between a .308 and a .284 bullet, both about the same weight and velocity.
And no, I don't know how you can theoretically and practically measure/compare this. I've seen the difference between a mushroomed semi-jacketed bullet and a little-bit-upsetted-at-the-nose all-copper one, where in my opinion the last one did do the best job.
And at the end: every one gets his own challenge when preparing for a hunt. And who has most of the fun: the one shooting 100 animals with the same gun/bullet combination or the other one shooting 10 animals with each time a totally different approach?
I myself still don't need the 100 animals to get my part of the fun.
But I do like the way you're searching your limits and I'm sure you'll be very satisfied when your findings at the range will get their positive test in the field.
Last edited by Aloysius on Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dawgdad Super Member
Joined: Feb 08, 2006 Posts: 1065 Location: On the Prairie
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Hunting with the .223 |
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_________________ Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency... |
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chambered221 Super Member
Joined: Aug 17, 2007 Posts: 3455 Location: Lost for good !!!
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:38 am Post subject: Re: Hunting with the .223 |
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chambered221 wrote: |
Slim, I'm definitely not against using such a light caliber or the use of the AR but I do have concerns about the terminal performance level you'll achieve with such a heavy bullet and short barrel !!!
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Slim, This is what I posted when you introduced us to the 70gr. bullet...........I think your starting to understand and see what I was trying to say !!!
_________________ Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!
A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington |
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8317 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Hunting with the .223 |
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chambered221 wrote: |
I do have concerns about the terminal performance level you'll achieve with such a heavy bullet and short barrel !!! ........... I think your starting to understand and see what I was trying to say !!! |
chambered, this performance is with a 24" barrel not the 16" which has significantly less velocity. Just wasn't expecting the gap with the .270 to be that wide. BTW, I alwasy respect your feedback and experience.
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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chambered221 Super Member
Joined: Aug 17, 2007 Posts: 3455 Location: Lost for good !!!
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Hunting with the .223 |
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I understood you were using the 24" !!!
Imagine what the gap would be using a 16" ???
Like I said I'm not against it, most hunters just don't go through it methodically like you have to get a good understanding of the realities involved.
It's one of the hardest things to get people to understand. Energy data by itself can not be relied upon to predict an outcome. Too many other variables are involved.
You proved this in your testing by the results you seen with the 62gr bullet. You've also proven to yourself that the 70gr. bullet although penetrates more will more than likely do less damage in the process due to it's minimal amount of expansion.
Bullet companies are great for telling us a given speed for expansion but they're not so good at expressing the speed a bullet should be going in order to get a decent sized permanent wound cavity.
Welcome to the world of expansion v penetration !!!
_________________ Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!
A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington |
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8317 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Hunting with the .223 |
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chambered, I load-up ten of the 62gr TTSX so I'm prepared for a hunt with the 24" WOA AR if the opportunity presents itself.
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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