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Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers.
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:48 am    Post subject: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. Reply with quote

Prime a 4570 cartridge with Large Pistol Primer I meant.

I am given some 600 Large Pistol primers from a mate, and got no pistol that uses large primers.
I reckon 454 Casull is a pistol that have way higher pressure than 4570Govt, and it uses pistol primer..
So methinks, it should be ok on 4570 even though I will shoot it out of a rifle.

Am I committing something foolish?

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:12 am    Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. Reply with quote

Hm...I remember asking a similar question a little while back...and the answer then was a definitive NO.

I reckon this will answer your question Gelan old mate.

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:41 am    Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. Reply with quote

Just as a recap...pistol primers are generally considered to be softer than rifle primers. I wouldn't recommend using them interchangeably.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. Reply with quote

gelandangan wrote:
I reckon 454 Casull is a pistol that have way higher pressure than 4570Govt, and it uses pistol primer..

The 454 uses a small rifle primer !!!

Primers are physically designed to withstand a given pressure range to prevent piercing.
The large pistol was designed to handle more than what the 45-70 will generate.

IMO your problem is gonna be ignition !!!
Most large pistol primer loads top out at about 30grs of powder, the 45-70 more than doubles that with some loads.

There is also a slight height difference that may be an issue !!!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:58 am    Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. Reply with quote

why don't you try them in the 45-70 using blackpowder or Pyrodex and one of your famous lead bullets?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:23 am    Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. Reply with quote

Not only softer and would not contain the pressure but less spark to ignite a stick powder.

Stick with rifle primers.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. Reply with quote

rifle primers are called rifle primers and are for rifles.
pistol primers are called pistol primers and are for pistols..
as has been said above they are built different for a reason and shouldnt be used otherwise.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. Reply with quote

That simple Elvis?

And now I'm looking at a box of Sellier & Bellot primers, named "4,4 SP BOXER"...
"for rifle, pistol or revolver cartridges"

maybe when you don't make Small Rifle primers, you're allowed to use the SP also as SR?

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44marty
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. Reply with quote

Not worth the chance, Gelan. Pistol primers used in rifles are very likely to puncture through around the firing pin. The flash through can erode and damage the firing pin and bolt face.
I have a few samples of rifle cartridges with pistol primers where this has happened, as examples. Too bad my camera is temporarily out of service.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. Reply with quote

Ok, you guys answered the bulk of my q's.
So I won't do it.

OTOH, most of my loads are SUBSONIC thus are of very low pressure.
Software calculated pressure is less than 18 kpsi, which is well within the pressure range of a pistol.

And, the line between pistol and rifle are really blurred anyway..
Viz, 357Mag or 45LC in a revolver and the same in a lever action.
Or the newer rifles cal cartridges in "pistol" format, eg 4570 derriger.


Argh! I am confused.

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. Reply with quote

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44marty
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. Reply with quote

gelandangan wrote:
Ok, you guys answered the bulk of my q's.
So I won't do it.

OTOH, most of my loads are SUBSONIC thus are of very low pressure.
Software calculated pressure is less than 18 kpsi, which is well within the pressure range of a pistol.

Argh! I am confused.

Even though you may be using low-pressure loads, most rifles' firing pins strike quite a bit harder than is safe for pistol primers. A pierced primer is dangerous and damaging to the firing pin, bolt face, and possibly the shooter.
Back when primers were in short supply here, many shooters found this out the hard way - myself included. DOH !!! Lesson learned.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. Reply with quote

The magnum pistols use magnum primers when the powder demands more briscence (sparky stuff) and there are between the regular pistol and rifle primers in cup strength too.
I wouldn't use a SR primer in a pistol without a note requiring it - like with my 357 Maximum. I have heard of guys doing it but then I also have seen blown up guns and over peak powder charges used by the same guys.
If you follow the specs in the manuals and use some (not so) common sense you and your gun will live together a long time.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. Reply with quote

ok Aloy you have the exception to the rule(maybe Very Happy ) I had a .12ga with a pointy fireing pin that would pierce S&B loads cause they had copper primers, plurry good loads though.

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:51 am    Post subject: Re: Can I? What's the difference? 4570 using Pistol Primers. Reply with quote

gelandangan wrote:
And, the line between pistol and rifle are really blurred anyway..
Viz, 357Mag or 45LC in a revolver and the same in a lever action.
Or the newer rifles cal cartridges in "pistol" format, eg 4570 derriger.

You aren't the first to be confused. Note that "pistol" cartridges still use pistol primers even when used in a rifle. Conversely, rifle cartridges still use rifle primers and powders even when chambered in pistols.

The best example I can think of is back when Thompson Center first offered pistol barrels in .30-30 Winchester. It didn't take long for stories to appear about how inaccurate they were and speculation that the old .30-30 just wasn't a fit for pistols. Before long you could pick up .30-30 barrels for pennies on the dollar. Finally someone figured out that reloaders were using faster powders (and in many cases pistol primers) under the assumption that the shorter barrels needed help. Once the loads were brought back to standard loads, powders and primers for the .30-30 when chambered in rifles, accuracy improved and everyone was happy.

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