Scopes , mounts, and rings

longwalker · Guest

Is there a trouble shooting proceedure to determine problem components? There is more than one best. How does one choose components and scopes to meet their needs? The applications can be so varied, Prairie Dogs to Bears. .223 - .458 Lott. There are so many competitors just naming one brand as the best does not seem right.

longwalker

Gil Martin · Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Scopes , mounts, and rings

longwalker,
It depends. I agree that there may be more than one preferred brand of scopes, mounts and rings. A review of my gun cabinet will reveal an assortment of several of each. I do have my likes and dislikes, but again it depends on what you like and works well. All the best...
Gil

shrpshtrjoe · Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Scopes , mounts, and rings

Howdy longwalker. If you could be a little more specific im sure one of us can come up with some sort of answer Very Happy

Blaine · Member Joined: Feb 24, 2005 Posts: 260 Location: Maine

Longwalker, I think for most of us the main criteria is price and availability. For example, I would love to have a custom built 300 Win Mag with a Swarovski scope. But I have 2 daughters in High school who are looking at colleges. I bought Weatherby Vanguard and a Simmons Aetec scope instead. Total cost $620 (including scope and mounts) Someday, when I shop for a gun, I won't be so concerned about what it cost, but for now.....it's has to be the lowest cost I can find. I don't know if that partially answers your question or not. As far as caliber and scope power......again it depends on how many firearms you are looking to buy. If I had no guns and was looking to buy only one, and was on a tight budget, I would buy a Savage in 30-06 and put a 3x-9x Nikon Buckmaster scope on it. I have a young friend just buying his first gun and when he asked me for my advice that is what I told him. He is very pleased with his outfit. The 30-06 is a great all-round caliber from grounghogs to deer and the availability of factory ammo ranges from 55 gr Rem "accelerator to a 220 gr Rem "Corelock".

Blaine

Knifeboy · Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Scopes , mounts, and rings

If I could have my way, I would pick Leupold every time. However, funds do not permit, so I have several other brands, that I like less. I will say that Leupold is my favorite by far. Leupold also makes the mounts and rings you need.
Some of the cheeper brands will serve you fine on a smaller caliber, but if you decide to put a cheep scope on a high power rifle look out. I have seen some strange things happen to the rectilces on low end scopes.
Well thats my 2cents on the subject, I hope we get more posts on this subject, because I think there are other options out there.

Knifeboy

longwalker · Guest

Thanks guys, I was hoping someone would give me some magic words. My problem is I cannot keep my point of impact consistant over a period of time. I will let you know when I have it solved.

longwalker

DallanC · Site Admin Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 3572 Location: Utah

That can be insanely frustrating. Unfortunately there isnt really a "Step 1) ..." guide to solving this. All I can do is suggest problem areas I've see in the past and you can give them each a try.

If you have a quality scope / rings / bases I would first look elsewhere for accuracy issues. If you think your bases might be loose smack the forward bell with your palm and try a couple shots smacking it between in the same direction. Try repeating a couple shots smacking it from the other side. A friend had a rifle that shot horizonal strings he couldnt figure out, doing this we determined the rear base was moving ever so slightly side to side. A little locktight and it was good to go.

I once had a scope that wouldnt hold zero... a weaver I think it was, thrown in for free when I bought my .22-250. After a frustrating box of ammo it was painfully obvious the scope was trash. We swapped it out later for a 3x9 Leupold and bingo, nice tight groups were the norm.

Finally I had a M700 .270 that had HORRIBLE groups. It had redfield bases, Leupold Rings and a Leupold 3x9VXIII scope. I knew the optics and mounts were not the problem as it was mounted by a professional gunsmith. After one frustrating day I removed the stock from the gun and noticed a bright spot on the barrel where the stock was rubbing it. I laid the gun back into the stock without screws and could tell the forarm was putting a ton of pressure on the barrel. Remington actually makes a pressure point in the forestocks for the barrel to sit on. In my case it was putting just too much pressure on it and after each shot, the barrel would settle onto a different spot on the bump. Knowing I wasnt going to make anything worse in regards for accuracy, I broke out a dremel and ground down the pressure point. Remarkably the barrel was free floating for the entire length of the stock afterwards. A quick trip to the range and I was happy to see 1 MOA groups which later turned sub-MOA with proper reloads.

-DallanC

moose2 · Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Scopes , mounts, and rings

Longwalker,
How's it going. You get any of that new snow yet. What happened to summer. Just another thought on your problem. Not sure what kind of gun, new or old you are working on, or if this gun shot good before with other components. The one thing I've found that's easiest to measure and correct is the trigger pull and in most newer guns that seems to be a problem. Most newer factory guns have trigger pulls in excess of 6 lbs., my new ruger had a 12 lb trigger. Check the trigger, if its over 3 lbs., that may be your culpret. Cool

BillPa · Member Joined: Mar 17, 2005 Posts: 89

Longwalker, you say the point of impact changes over time, but is the rifle grouping as usual?
Also, what rifle,stock,mounts,caliber,loading data,etc.

Bill

DallanC · Site Admin Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 3572 Location: Utah

BillPa asked good questions. I'd add another saying in the groups itself, is it stringing them at all or is it random around the target?

-DallanC

Guest · Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Scopes , mounts, and rings

I just bought some Burris rings, I am going to install them first and give it a try this weekend. If that doesn't do it, I am looking at the scope.

The rifle is a Savage 338-06. Savage wooden stock stripped and refinished. The Savage trigger is about 6 pounds.
The Barrel is clean no copper, patchs come out clean no blue or black. The trigger is not the best but not bad for a hunting gun which this is. The barrel is free floated but not glass bedded. That may get done sooner than latter.

200 grain bullets at 2670 ft/ sec.

longwalker

moose2 · Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Scopes , mounts, and rings

Longwalker,
be sure to keep us updated how you're progessing. This is an interesting scenario on problem solving. Best of Luck! Smile

Happy · Rookie Member Joined: Mar 28, 2005 Posts: 16

I would lighten that trigger and the groups will tighten up. We have ours all set 22-21/2 pound let off.
Find with such a heavy trigger you tend to pull the shot.
When your breathing is right and the cross hairs are on the target the next step should be as smooth as the first step, not having to stop the process at the last second to yank the trigger.
Dry fire it at a target at close range and watch the scope. you will get the picturewhen you have pulled the trigger.
Happy

longwalker · Guest

I think I have told you I was purchasing some burris scope mount rings. These were and are much better than the aluminum ones that came with the rifle. Replacing the originals made a difference, but did not completely solve the problem.

My next step was to replace the scope. I purchased a Swift scope and presto everything is predictable. I noticed right away, the eye relief was considerably longer than with the Simmons. Which in turn allowed me to find a more comfortable position when shooting from the bench. It may be that part of my problem was not being directly behind the scope when shooting.

I conclude that the Burris rings held the scope much more securely, and thus eliminated the the point of impact changes, from one trip to the range to the next. The new scope with its longer eye relief allows me to have a better sight picture and position behind the scope, resulting in tighter groups.

A couple of more trips to the range and I will have it licked.

longwalker

shrpshtrjoe · Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Scopes , mounts, and rings

Howdy longwalker. Most simmons scopes have a waranty for the original buyer you should be able to have it fixed or replaced free use it for another rifle, by the way good story you posted in the article section Very Happy

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