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308vis30/06
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

There is a slight difference in the case dimensions between the 308 and 7.62 Nato. The difference (if my memory is correct) is in the neck length. The longer neck could cause pressure problems in SOME short chambered 308 commercial guns.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:58 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Checking the NRA "Handloading", Speer and Hornady books there isn't anything about different EXTERNAL dimensions between the .308 Win and 7.62x51mm NATO (or the .223 Rem and 5.56x45mm NATO by the way). The NRA and Speer mention the thicker brass/reduced capacity of the military cases. Speer used mil-spec brass for their .308, and .223, loads in Manual #14.

The differences are not in the EXTERNAL cartridge dimensions but in the chamber throats and cartridge capacities. Military guns have longer throats, allowing longer bullet seating. Mil-surp rounds may also be loaded to higher pressures. The combination of the two can lead to problesm in commercial chambers.

Winchester had this info >> www.winchester.com/law...storyid=11

SAAMI says >> www.saami.org/Unsafe_C...ations.cfm

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

lesterg3 wrote:

What is the difference between the NATO 7.62x39 and the NATO 7.62x51?


The 7.62X39mm is a Russian round normally intended for the Kalashnikov rifles and the various SKS, AK versions and etc. It has been in use since 1943 but is not considered to be a NATO round. Its ballistics are inferior to the .30-30 Winchester in virtually all bullet weights. It is shorter (1.52") than the .308/7.62mm NATO (2.005") and has a smaller case head (.445" versus .473 for the .308).

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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Pumpkinslinger,

Thanks for the clarification. Razz

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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

.308 to 30-06??

OLD argument as stated.
Anybody who argues the .308 over the 30-06 is either arguing just for the argument, or doesn't read the data books very well, and can't see that 2+2=4.

Like "Gramps" says, 30-06 bolt everyday over the .308.

Eric

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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Frankly,

I would be happy to have either. Very Happy As I suspect each of us would.

But, I also suspect that arguing the merits of different firearms is one of the great joys of serious enthusiasts.

I guess my question does not involve the merits of the calibers in question, but is more of an end of time question.

If after the apocalypses, and assuming that any of us made it through alive, or better yet a Islam take over of the world.

Which caliber will be easier to find. I assume at this point since I can fire both the standard .308, and the NATO 7.62x51mm with the .308 that I will be twice as likely to find ammunition.

And, just because we reload cartridges that adds no benefit to the 30-06, because I will be as likely to find reloading materials for either calibers.

So, from a survivalist point of view the .308 would be my choice.

But, please, I am not demeaning the attributes of the 30-06.

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"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. "--Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."--James Madison

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.

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wncchester
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

"...308 vs the 30/06. As has been stated before there is not enough difference here to bother about."

Check the difference with 180 and 200 gr. bullets and the wimp won't be so shiney. Military considerations aside, the 308 is a deer round, the -06 is a big game round.

The KING still lives, with a tip of my hat to Bushy! Very Happy
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English Mike
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Maximum chamber pressures for commercial .308 & 7.62x51 NATO are a lot closer than rumour has it.
This is due to the former being measured in PSI & until recently, the latter in CUP.
The two are not comparable & their relationship is not linear.
New STANAG specifications for NATO small arms ammunition have been released & they are in PSI.

7.62x51 maximum service pressure: 60,190psi
.308 SAAMI maximum pressure: 62, 000psi

Not a lot in it.

There IS one very good reason why .308 is better than 30-06:

They don't make a FAL chambered for the latter. Very Happy
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Must be a good reason for that too, English Mike... ROFL

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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

OK, so what does FAL stand for?

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"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. "--Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."--James Madison

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.

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tikkat3
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Light Automatic Rifle (Fusil Automatique Leger)
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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

This must me mid winter and we are all bored. Sad

How in the heck this post still has legs is beyond me--except nothing better to do.

I now have 20 boxes of .45ACPs reloaded, 6 boxes of 44/40 loaded up, 6 boxes of .44Mags loaded, 8 boxes of .45Colt, 8 boxes of 9mm reloaded, and I just reset my Lyman All American Turret Press to start reloading more 44/40s.

Next week, I start ice fishing for the Frying Pan and the Freezer.
Until then, I will continue following this unending post. Sleep Sleep Sleep Sleep


Eric Popcorn Popcorn Popcorn

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tikkat3
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

I'm not sure what it is all about ElyBoy?
Why argue about the 308;30 06
Give up there the same
The 300WSM is a much better round!
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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

Oh-boy....300 WSM...With about 100 to 150 fps better velocity then a .30-06. Yes...That IS an improvement. Yes in deedee....

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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 308vis30/06 Reply with quote

It isn't about anything Tikk Man.

Bushy and Dimiti can explain my sense of humor to you.

I was just offering an observation.
These kinds of posts always happen around here this time of year.
They are just something to pass the time on.

Bushy is correct--I have a Model 70 .300 WinMag Classic Sporter and also a Model 70 .338 WinMag that kind of leaves the '08 and'06 in the dust.
Add in my Model 71 .348 and Marlin 1895 45/70 Guide gun and this post's first argument is pretty much over and done with.


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