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looking for some old 44-40 loading dies
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: looking for some old 44-40 loading dies Reply with quote

you could use pyradex? loads the black powder alternative man a 45/70 gets alot of use from the guys on this site and if dad says its good to go its good to go. the spare barrel is a great asset to have for later years. some of the guys here cast thier own so load info should be easy to get. good luck with them and thankyou again for sharing this all with us.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: looking for some old 44-40 loading dies Reply with quote

I saw an 1886 today at the gun show for $8,000 ...

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dan1dad
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: looking for some old 44-40 loading dies Reply with quote

8k !!! Ouch.. I dont think Im shooting it.
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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: looking for some old 44-40 loading dies Reply with quote

If I'm reading the serial number list right, your 1886 should have been manufactured in 1887. As for shooting it; assuming it's in tight mechanical shape it can quite safely handle loads listed for the Trapdoor Springfield or even a bit higher. The 1886 action is extremely strong and limited only as to whether it has a steel or nickel-steel barrel. Since the nickel-steel barrel wasn't available until 1895, you should keep loads to around 28,000 psi. Using this as a guideline, there is no reason to confine yourself to black-powder loads only. Even the very early rifles have been converted to cartridges in the 40,000 psi range with nothing more than a modern steel barrel. Of course, these conversions are also the reason for the value to increase as many formerly collectible rifles are customized and taken out of the collecting pool.

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dan1dad
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: looking for some old 44-40 loading dies Reply with quote

funny you should mention conversions. After chasing my dad on the old folks scooter around walmart for the last hour and half, he was telling me more about the 1886 on the ride back to his house.

Apparently, it was a 45-82 ?? originally. They only had a few cases for it anymore when he started shooting it when he was around 18. So he machined on the lathe another 10 cartridges out of brass, and cast up a bunch of bullets. Now, to give you an idea of just how big of a gun nut family I come from, at my grandfathers house they hinged the basement steps to rise up to give a clear opening across the large basement they had. Then they knocked a hole in the foundation wall to expose it to dirt under the front concrete porch. When they tested guns or shooting for he heck of it, up went the stairs and the fun began. My dad said when he was 18 it was the first and last time he was ever allowed to shoot the 1886 inside. The very first round knocked just about every picture off the wall and all the nick nacks off the shelves and fireplace mantle in the living room above. My grandmother, a very colorful woman who spoke her mind, often and loudly, let it be known that she would shove that gun up his *$$ if he ever did that again.

Anyway, about 10 years ago my dad paid some guy to redo it into a 45-70. He kept the original barrel, but had a replacement one cut for the 45-70. So it has been modified, but I understand it could go back to the original 45-82. But like he said, Why? he doesn't care what its worth, as he doesn't plan on selling it and neither should I.

a great story about the basement shooting, My dad and my grandfather worked on a Thompson machine gun for one of the local FBI agents back in the late 40's. It was evening time and they were just about to give it a test run. At that same time a bible salesman had knocked on the front door, standing on the porch, over the in wall bullet trap. Just as my grandmother opened the front door, they let the Thompson rip and emptied the clip. He said my grandmother said the bible salesman turned white, jumped up about 10 feet in the air and took off running. They never saw him again. Gotta love it. But it does explain why you can only talk to my dad by yelling at him now. He never used ear protection.
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: looking for some old 44-40 loading dies Reply with quote

oh that thompson in the house sure would have scares the daylights out of him for sure. sounds like you should get the 45/70 out and start shooting.

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: looking for some old 44-40 loading dies Reply with quote

I was thrown by the reference to it having originally been a .45-82 since that caliber isn't mentioned in most descriptions of the 1886. Since I love a mystery when it involves old guns, what I did find at this website will interest you greatly: www.rtgammo.com/cf_box20.html

Connecticut Cartridge Co. This company mfd a number of the "old favorites" (as they stated) from the mid-1960s to the early-'70s. They are properly headstamped "C.C.C. 45-82" and are clean, lead b't, smkls pwdr rds. Most collectors (or shooters) aren't even aware of these and far fewer have ever seen them! Though Winchester never cataloged guns in 45-82 they did produce 2 (that's TWO!) guns that "letter" to this caliber. Ammo boxes in this caliber, were, except for CCC, made only by Winchester and are therefore quite rare. [See Giles & Shuey, pg 149]

Also, from The Legacy of Lever Guns (check out this link: buffalobore.net/LeverG...r2000.pdf) is this description:

Cartridge identification for the
1886 is about as confusing as it
can get. For example, the .45-90
WCF was also known as .45-85-
350, .45-85-300 and .45-82-405,
depending on the bullet weight
and powder charge.

Are we confused enough yet?? Shocked This is what makes guns so interesting!

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dan1dad
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: looking for some old 44-40 loading dies Reply with quote

yeah, that would be really good news, except I messed up , not 45 82, but 40-82 , a much more common round. Nothing that good ever happens in our family. Unfortunately.
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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: looking for some old 44-40 loading dies Reply with quote

Dang, the plot keeps getting bigger and bigger. Very Happy

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: looking for some old 44-40 loading dies Reply with quote

Vince wrote:
...Calibre...I don't know without having a real close look...but I am thinking it could be a 40/82.

WOO HOO....I got it right. Like Single Shot, I too enjoy a bit of a historical mystery and the search to try to nut it out.

Look after that gun mate...if nothing else, and even if you never fire it, it is a link to a wonderful, and colourful from the sounds of things, past in your family. Now all you have to do is impress upon your young'uns the heirloom/historic value of the guns rather than the resale/collectors value.

Cheers, Vince

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dan1dad
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:58 am    Post subject: Re: looking for some old 44-40 loading dies Reply with quote

Well, I used the old master card to order a Steelwater 39 long gun safe HD593924-BLK. Its $1800, normally $4k, but its on sale, and that price includes free shipping and delivery, and a humidifier! WowWee! I hope that delivery includes putting it in the basement where I want it. That pig has to be heavy as can be.
I think if I remove the shelving and re-do the interior, I might be able to about doubt that capacity. That should take care of a bulk of the rifles. I have a smaller Winchester safe that will accommodate around 20 more rifles, as well as a couple small pistol safes and an old thick metal cabinet about 5 foot tall, 28 inches and 3.4 feet wide. I had used it to store powders and other reloading supplies in, but I cleared it out to store handguns and some rifles, and accessories in. So with the newest acquisition, I hope to give my collection a good, safe and happy home for years to come. The 1886 and 1873 are both going in the new Steelwater, with extra protection for rust prevention and such. Thems my babies.
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dan1dad
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:27 pm    Post subject: Re: looking for some old 44-40 loading dies Reply with quote

want to know what really really sucks. When you 81 year old father gives you 2 of his oldest Winchester guns, you have them for a while and you really cherish them. Then, out of the blue, he calls you up and wonders if you have seen his Winchesters, cause your brother is finally coming down to visit him and he is going to give them to him!!
When I explained to him that he had given them to me a while back, he said he was sorry, guessed he screwd up, but he promised them to my brother and would like me to bring them back so he can give them to him. Yes, my brother, who does nothing for my dad or mom, who , if lucky, visits them once a year for maybe a whole day. How does nothing to help them out, and never has. But now I have to drive 3 hours one way, to drop off 2 guns so he can get them. I guess techinally, they are his, but he gave them to me, so they are mine too. But, he is my dad, and I am the sucker son who always does everything for him and my mom. Unlike my brothers.
talk about a suck azz day. And yes, my dad did make a written list of who gets what. Which he has already changed 10 times in the last 2 years. But this is the first time he has ask for something back so he can give it to someone else. Mad
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dan1dad
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:28 pm    Post subject: Re: looking for some old 44-40 loading dies Reply with quote

on a bright note though, I did pick up a Rossi Tuffy snake charmer 410 at a pawn shop over the weekend for $75. Not as great as the winchesters , but its a fun little gun.
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:32 pm    Post subject: Re: looking for some old 44-40 loading dies Reply with quote

good on you dan1dad the bitterness that a refusal would have caused would have been too much. have fun with the new rossi. a photo would be good.

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dan1dad
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:14 am    Post subject: Re: looking for some old 44-40 loading dies Reply with quote

Just call me Dan mate.. Its easier to type, and its my name anyway. lol

Here it is, at my messy loading/ jewelers basement nook where I do things at home.

Oh, Elvis, Also in this group is a photo of a gun my dad made a long time ago. Its a compact 45, but long before they were even popular here. I remember back in the late 70s when he made it, he spend many hours in the basement at home working on it until it was right. And it is so right, shoots fantastic. Problem is he also made his own clip, and I cant just buy one to fit, so I am going to pick his brain and see about making a spare clip for it myself. Shouldn't be that bad as it starts with a standard 1911 45 clip. But I just refinished a set of walnut grips and they turned out nice. I strip the finish, then I used every day normal red latex paint on them. let it sit for about 10 minutes, then wipe it off. After that, i rub it with paper towels. Then coat with a poly clear, and before it completely dries, I rub it. In this case I rubbed it by hand as I was going for that "used" look. And it do look used not LOL
I also did the same think with my AK, or as I call it now, my big boy Red Ryder, like the bb gun. Ok, Ill put a couple pix of those in there too for you. Im scrubbing part of the S# on it out of paranoia. I dont want anyone claiming its not mine so no need to advertise the serial #, at least I think.

s281.photobucket.com/a...20friends/
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