HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: GrpThrpy
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 1
Overall: 13125

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 136
BOT: 1
Total: 137
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Home
04: Forums
05: Your Account
06: Home
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Your Account
10: Forums
11: Home
12: Home
13: Photo Albums
14: Home
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Photo Albums
20: Forums
21: Photo Albums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Photo Albums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Home
31: Forums
32: Home
33: Forums
34: Your Account
35: Forums
36: Photo Albums
37: Your Account
38: Forums
39: Your Account
40: Forums
41: Home
42: Forums
43: Home
44: Photo Albums
45: Your Account
46: Home
47: Home
48: Photo Albums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Your Account
54: Forums
55: Home
56: Forums
57: Home
58: Your Account
59: Home
60: Photo Albums
61: Forums
62: Your Account
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Home
66: Photo Albums
67: Forums
68: Photo Albums
69: Forums
70: Home
71: Forums
72: Your Account
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Home
76: Home
77: Home
78: Home
79: Forums
80: Your Account
81: Photo Albums
82: Home
83: Forums
84: Home
85: Forums
86: Forums
87: Forums
88: Home
89: Your Account
90: Forums
91: Home
92: Home
93: Forums
94: Home
95: Photo Albums
96: Your Account
97: Your Account
98: Home
99: Your Account
100: Home
101: Home
102: Home
103: Forums
104: Forums
105: Home
106: Forums
107: Home
108: Forums
109: Forums
110: Home
111: Home
112: Home
113: Home
114: Home
115: Forums
116: Home
117: Home
118: Home
119: Your Account
120: Home
121: Forums
122: Your Account
123: Home
124: Home
125: Forums
126: Forums
127: Home
128: Forums
129: Home
130: Home
131: Home
132: Forums
133: Forums
134: Home
135: Home
136: Your Account
  BOT:
01: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820262
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

Looking for load data to 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag.
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
stefan
Member
Member


Joined: Feb 10, 2011
Posts: 45
Location: Kalix, Sweden 50 km south the arctic circle

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:43 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for load data to 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag. Reply with quote

inthedark wrote:
Hey Stefan
I don't know if you know about this company in South Africa that manufactures high quality bullets at affordable prices ( At least affordable here in Canada ) It is www.frontierbullets.co.za

Frontier Bullets make two lines of bullets: Spartan Series for the 416 and the 8mm in a copper solid that is cnc machined in the following hollow point flat base (short ogive), hollow point boat tail, hollow point flat base (long ogive) and finally the Phalanx which is designed for dangerous game. For the 416 also the gameranger series lead bullets that are electroplated and have a flat meplat designed for slower velocities with maximum damage.

They also make pistol bullets as well and I use the pistol bullets myself and will be ordering the big game bullets from them this summer. I am quite impressed with the quality of their products but you make your own mind up. This is just my opinion.

Chimo (inuktituk)

inthedark

Inthedark Hi!

No, I have not done but I saw the distributors that it is in Sweden as well. I will investigate it further. I'm gonna hear me on the Swedish forum if there are any members who have experience with the ball.

I heard an argument from a member of the copper bullets take too much space inside the sleeve so he used the rather ordinary ball with Blyk type Swift A-frame. He thought it was better to fill up that space with some extra punch instead. What about the argument? Will he right or is he wrong?

_________________
/Stefan

It requires a whole new way of thinking to solve the problems we created with the old way of thinking.
/ Albert Einstein

The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go a little past them into the impossible.
/ Arthur C. Clarke
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8312
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for load data to 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag. Reply with quote

stefan wrote:
I heard an argument from a member of the copper bullets take too much space inside the sleeve so he used the rather ordinary ball with Blyk type Swift A-frame. He thought it was better to fill up that space with some extra punch instead. What about the argument? Will he right or is he wrong?

I think it depends on the cartridge. An all copper bullet the same size as a lead-copper bullet is lighter (about 20%) and thus can achieve a higher velocity. If you compare both at the same weight, the all copper bullet will be longer and take up powder volume. If the cartridge case is short on powder capacity to begin with, then the argument above proves out. If the case has excess capacity for its caliber, then the all-cooper bullet may not be at a disadvantage. In fact, there may be an advantage as most monolithic bullets come with bands on the side of the bullet, reducing bullet surface area, reducing friction in the bore, reducing pressure. This allows you to load extra grains of powder and achieve higher velocities. As an example, take the 6.8 SPC and the .270 Win which both use the same bullet but have different powder capacities. With the 110gr TSX, the 6.8 looses too much powder capacity and typically won't achieve as high of a muzzle velocity as a 110gr lead-core bullet. In the .270, I have the extra case capacity to load in extra powder compared to a lead-core load and achieve higher velocities without over pressure. My 130 TSX load also faster than a 130 lead-core. That won't be the situation for a 150gr bullet. With the 6.8, step down to a the 85gr TSX and now that bullet-powder charge achieve balance and the 85gr does well in the 6.8.

There is also the arguement that terminal peformance of a lighter all-copper bullet may be equal or better than a heavier lead-core bullet becuase they typically retain the mass on impact. I'm not going to argue this one either way but do believe in the monolithic bullet advantage.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2984
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for load data to 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag. Reply with quote

+1 on what Slim says.

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
stefan
Member
Member


Joined: Feb 10, 2011
Posts: 45
Location: Kalix, Sweden 50 km south the arctic circle

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for load data to 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag. Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
stefan wrote:
I heard an argument from a member of the copper bullets take too much space inside the sleeve so he used the rather ordinary ball with Blyk type Swift A-frame. He thought it was better to fill up that space with some extra punch instead. What about the argument? Will he right or is he wrong?

I think it depends on the cartridge. An all copper bullet the same size as a lead-copper bullet is lighter (about 20%) and thus can achieve a higher velocity. If you compare both at the same weight, the all copper bullet will be longer and take up powder volume. If the cartridge case is short on powder capacity to begin with, then the argument above proves out. If the case has excess capacity for its caliber, then the all-cooper bullet may not be at a disadvantage. In fact, there may be an advantage as most monolithic bullets come with bands on the side of the bullet, reducing bullet surface area, reducing friction in the bore, reducing pressure. This allows you to load extra grains of powder and achieve higher velocities. As an example, take the 6.8 SPC and the .270 Win which both use the same bullet but have different powder capacities. With the 110gr TSX, the 6.8 looses too much powder capacity and typically won't achieve as high of a muzzle velocity as a 110gr lead-core bullet. In the .270, I have the extra case capacity to load in extra powder compared to a lead-core load and achieve higher velocities without over pressure. My 130 TSX load also faster than a 130 lead-core. That won't be the situation for a 150gr bullet. With the 6.8, step down to a the 85gr TSX and now that bullet-powder charge achieve balance and the 85gr does well in the 6.8.

There is also the arguement that terminal peformance of a lighter all-copper bullet may be equal or better than a heavier lead-core bullet becuase they typically retain the mass on impact. I'm not going to argue this one either way but do believe in the monolithic bullet advantage.


Hi!

Thanks for the account and the lesson! It was interesting reading and then you have hopefully learned something new.

_________________
/Stefan

It requires a whole new way of thinking to solve the problems we created with the old way of thinking.
/ Albert Einstein

The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go a little past them into the impossible.
/ Arthur C. Clarke
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
stefan
Member
Member


Joined: Feb 10, 2011
Posts: 45
Location: Kalix, Sweden 50 km south the arctic circle

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:20 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for load data to 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag. Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
stefan wrote:
I heard an argument from a member of the copper bullets take too much space inside the sleeve so he used the rather ordinary ball with Blyk type Swift A-frame. He thought it was better to fill up that space with some extra punch instead. What about the argument? Will he right or is he wrong?

I think it depends on the cartridge. An all copper bullet the same size as a lead-copper bullet is lighter (about 20%) and thus can achieve a higher velocity. If you compare both at the same weight, the all copper bullet will be longer and take up powder volume. If the cartridge case is short on powder capacity to begin with, then the argument above proves out. If the case has excess capacity for its caliber, then the all-cooper bullet may not be at a disadvantage. In fact, there may be an advantage as most monolithic bullets come with bands on the side of the bullet, reducing bullet surface area, reducing friction in the bore, reducing pressure. This allows you to load extra grains of powder and achieve higher velocities. As an example, take the 6.8 SPC and the .270 Win which both use the same bullet but have different powder capacities. With the 110gr TSX, the 6.8 looses too much powder capacity and typically won't achieve as high of a muzzle velocity as a 110gr lead-core bullet. In the .270, I have the extra case capacity to load in extra powder compared to a lead-core load and achieve higher velocities without over pressure. My 130 TSX load also faster than a 130 lead-core. That won't be the situation for a 150gr bullet. With the 6.8, step down to a the 85gr TSX and now that bullet-powder charge achieve balance and the 85gr does well in the 6.8.

There is also the arguement that terminal peformance of a lighter all-copper bullet may be equal or better than a heavier lead-core bullet becuase they typically retain the mass on impact. I'm not going to argue this one either way but do believe in the monolithic bullet advantage.

Hi SlimJim!

I found the following test results for Guns & Ammo.
As I interpret these test firings will give Swift A-frame 220 gr. most m / s and impact energy. Now I do not know if I have understood all the text right, but I believe it.

See the link!
www.gunsandammo.com/node/4866/extra
Very Happy

_________________
/Stefan

It requires a whole new way of thinking to solve the problems we created with the old way of thinking.
/ Albert Einstein

The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go a little past them into the impossible.
/ Arthur C. Clarke
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2432
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:43 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for load data to 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag. Reply with quote

Stefan, be carefull with your conlcusions. Where do you need this bullet's energy: at the muzzle or at the target?
Compare with a cal 12 slug. What's its energy at the muzzle and what its energy f.e. at 200 yards?
A bullet will not gain energy after leaving the muzzle in normal conditions. It will only loose, but how fast is the trick behind lots of different bulletshapes and its raw materials.
Back to top
View user's profile
stefan
Member
Member


Joined: Feb 10, 2011
Posts: 45
Location: Kalix, Sweden 50 km south the arctic circle

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:17 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for load data to 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag. Reply with quote

Aloysius wrote:
Stefan, be carefull with your conlcusions. Where do you need this bullet's energy: at the muzzle or at the target?
Compare with a cal 12 slug. What's its energy at the muzzle and what its energy f.e. at 200 yards?
A bullet will not gain energy after leaving the muzzle in normal conditions. It will only loose, but how fast is the trick behind lots of different bulletshapes and its raw materials.

Hi Aloysius!

Yes, I know I have to be careful! A hunting buddy of mine to run this information in the Quick Load so that he can see where the maximum charge is and when he has something to compare with, then he should run the Swift A-frame 220 gr., and Norma MRP powder with federal 215 primer so we'll see what the chart says the maximum load.
The gunpowder factory, we are not in Sweden:

Magnum
MagPro
Re-25, we have no sellers for longer.
It is quite surprising really for Re - gunpowder is manufactured in Sweden.

_________________
/Stefan

It requires a whole new way of thinking to solve the problems we created with the old way of thinking.
/ Albert Einstein

The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go a little past them into the impossible.
/ Arthur C. Clarke
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8312
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for load data to 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag. Reply with quote

Aloys makes a valid point. The Swift A-frame has a lower BC .(.393 vs .421), thus the Barnes TSX will have a flater trajectory and more energy down range. Plus the all-cooper bullet will have better weight retention on impact, though the A-frame does above average for a lead-core bullet.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
stefan
Member
Member


Joined: Feb 10, 2011
Posts: 45
Location: Kalix, Sweden 50 km south the arctic circle

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for load data to 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag. Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
Aloys makes a valid point. The Swift A-frame has a lower BC .(.393 vs .421), thus the Barnes TSX will have a flater trajectory and more energy down range. Plus the all-cooper bullet will have better weight retention on impact, though the A-frame does above average for a lead-core bullet.

Ok! Thanks for your comments!
I am always receptive to all information pertaining to handloading.

_________________
/Stefan

It requires a whole new way of thinking to solve the problems we created with the old way of thinking.
/ Albert Einstein

The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go a little past them into the impossible.
/ Arthur C. Clarke
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8312
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for load data to 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag. Reply with quote

stefan, not sure this limited data from Barnes is helpful. Their most recent #4 manual will have more data and additional powders. Some others on the forum may be able to give you these additional powders.

www.barnesbullets.com/...numWeb.pdf

I have found the Barnes data is more appropriate for their bullets as they have spent the time to work up loads to stay within pressure limits and still take advantage of their banded bullets.

Sometimes when I want to use use a powder that isn't listed by Barnes, I will compare the powders on Barnes list with another from powder manufacturers, then ratio the powder I'd like to use based on the comparison. I then cautiously work of up own loads based on this comparison. E.g., if the Barnes data typically use 2.0 grains more powder before reaching max pressure, I'll use this to gauge the limits of the alternate powder I'd like to use.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
stefan
Member
Member


Joined: Feb 10, 2011
Posts: 45
Location: Kalix, Sweden 50 km south the arctic circle

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for load data to 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag. Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
stefan, not sure this limited data from Barnes is helpful. Their most recent #4 manual will have more data and additional powders. Some others on the forum may be able to give you these additional powders.

www.barnesbullets.com/...numWeb.pdf

I have found the Barnes data is more appropriate for their bullets as they have spent the time to work up loads to stay within pressure limits and still take advantage of their banded bullets.

Sometimes when I want to use use a powder that isn't listed by Barnes, I will compare the powders on Barnes list with another from powder manufacturers, then ratio the powder I'd like to use based on the comparison. I then cautiously work of up own loads based on this comparison. E.g., if the Barnes data typically use 2.0 grains more powder before reaching max pressure, I'll use this to gauge the limits of the alternate powder I'd like to use.

Hi SlimJim!

I've been inside and read on this link, so that I know. I'll keep my eyes open so I get to see when the next guide comes out.

Ok!

I have a list in my computer from VV "Burning Rate Chart" that might help you. It is in PDF format and I'll see if I can upload it. Do you have an email address so you can send an email to bondersbyn @ hotmail.com

www.vihtavuori-lapua.c...-Chart.pdf

I find it on internet, too!

_________________
/Stefan

It requires a whole new way of thinking to solve the problems we created with the old way of thinking.
/ Albert Einstein

The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go a little past them into the impossible.
/ Arthur C. Clarke
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Elvis
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 9221
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for load data to 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag. Reply with quote

both my Nick Harvey and Sierra manuals have loads for these 2 calibers the Nick Harvey has over a page of options for the 8mm mag.if you cant find something that suits I could pm the data to you if needed.

_________________
You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers!
Back to top
View user's profile
stefan
Member
Member


Joined: Feb 10, 2011
Posts: 45
Location: Kalix, Sweden 50 km south the arctic circle

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:19 am    Post subject: Re: Looking for load data to 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag. Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
both my Nick Harvey and Sierra manuals have loads for these 2 calibers the Nick Harvey has over a page of options for the 8mm mag.if you cant find something that suits I could pm the data to you if needed.

I´ve read Sierra manual´s and Nick´s homepage too.

I can buy the book if I have undertand it right.

www.hawkbullets.com/harvey.htm

Yes please! Very Happy

_________________
/Stefan

It requires a whole new way of thinking to solve the problems we created with the old way of thinking.
/ Albert Einstein

The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go a little past them into the impossible.
/ Arthur C. Clarke
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8312
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for load data to 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag. Reply with quote

stefan, I was able to look up the Barnes load data for the 200 TSX. It uses some pretty standard powders that may be easier for you to obtain. I don't have any other load data for the 8mm RM with like powders to compare it to so I can not derive other loads.

IMR 4350 69.0 - 76.5 gr _ 3014 fps
RL 19 ___ 71.0 - 79.0 gr _ 2998 fps
IMR 4831 72.0 - 79.5 gr _ 3015 fps
XMR 3100 74.5 - 80.0 gr _ 3050 fps
H4831 SC 74.0 - 81.0 gr _ 2967 fps
Mag Pro*_ 80.0 - 88.0 gr _ 3058 fps

* most accurate

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
stefan
Member
Member


Joined: Feb 10, 2011
Posts: 45
Location: Kalix, Sweden 50 km south the arctic circle

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Looking for load data to 8mm rem mag and 416 rem mag. Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
stefan, I was able to look up the Barnes load data for the 200 TSX. It uses some pretty standard powders that may be easier for you to obtain. I don't have any other load data for the 8mm RM with like powders to compare it to so I can not derive other loads.

IMR 4350 69.0 - 76.5 gr _ 3014 fps
RL 19 ___ 71.0 - 79.0 gr _ 2998 fps
IMR 4831 72.0 - 79.5 gr _ 3015 fps
XMR 3100 74.5 - 80.0 gr _ 3050 fps
H4831 SC 74.0 - 81.0 gr _ 2967 fps
Mag Pro*_ 80.0 - 88.0 gr _ 3058 fps

* most accurate

Hi SlimJim!

Thanks for your information. Now I have a bit more to watch.

_________________
/Stefan

It requires a whole new way of thinking to solve the problems we created with the old way of thinking.
/ Albert Einstein

The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go a little past them into the impossible.
/ Arthur C. Clarke
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 2 of 4
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.