goofed 80 cases

PaulS · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:55 am Post subject: Re: goofed 80 cases

When I made the mistake of priming cases before I had sized I just ran them through the sizing die. It helped me to develop the routine that I have now so that can't happen again.
I rarely full length size any more but I have stuck to the routine for the last 30 years or so.

twofifty · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: Re: goofed 80 cases

PaulS, if I hadn't walked away from shooting some 20 years ago (I was reloading shotgun then and still have my Pacific press), by now I would have been reloading CF and have discovered dozens of other ways to "stuff up" as Vince calls it. Gotta love that Aussie slang for f'up. lol.

I've got to develop a plan of action for each batch, keep the brass batched and organized, use a checklist....

What simple tracking systems work for you guys?

Bushmaster · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: Re: goofed 80 cases

My memory and the fact that I'm a creature of habit and tend to repeat a procedure over and over. I have two methods of reloading. One for handgun and one for rifle. Before someone says anything...I can adjust to a new situation when necessary...Other then that...Good habits are hard to beat.

All my brass is seperated by head stamp and sorted into groups of 50 for handgun and groups of 20 for rifle. Each box is numbered and I keep track of the loadings and number of trimings in a log or ledger...

Order of case prep:
Inspect and tumble for 15 to 20 minutes...
Inspect and resize/decap(Lube if rifle cases) on a single stage press...
Inspect and measure for length and trim and/or camfer/debur if needed...
Inspect and tumble for 1 hour or more...
Inspect and place in prospective box and clean primer pockets (takes about a minute for 50 cases)...
If I'm going to reload them I inspect and prime them at this time on a seperate single stage press...
Set up Lee turret press and scale...
Rifle cases are powder charged in a loading block. All powder charges are weighed...
Hangun cases are charged on the press with die mounted powder dispencer and then weighed. ALL powder charges are weighed on an electronic scale (I'm annal about that)...
Bullet seating and crimping (rifle and handgun) are done on the Lee turret...
Inspected and placed in their prospective box, logged and stored.

Kind of a long list, but it goes pretty fast...

twofifty · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: goofed 80 cases

Thanks Bushy.

I'm gonna buy some more ammo boxes and....
I'm gonna inspect each time brass is handled.
Ordered a Lee collet die this am.

Do you trim after each firing, or do you wait till the case length grows several firings? Mine have all been trimmed back once to SAAMI
trim-to length after 3 firings. Was not going to trim again till they crept back to SAAMI max. Chamber is quite long actually.

Point well made: Case inspection...the key to safe handloading.

woods · Member Joined: Oct 15, 2005 Posts: 89

twofifty wrote:

Ordered a Lee collet die this am.

Hey 250

You will find the Lee Collet an excellent neck sizer as well as a solution to your present problem. If you wanted to size the necks to have a certain bullet grip, say .004", then you can use the same method of sizing the necks without the mandrel. It is a little tricky and it works best with neck turned brass but it can be done. At some point it will start pushing on the case body and create a bulge at the case body/shoulder junction.

I went through a period where I tested bullet grip this way. I kept track of runout and accuracy. My tests were not conclusive but I came away with the impression that a heavy bullet grip did not increase accuracy and using the Lee Collet without the mandrel increased runout.

Bushmaster · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: goofed 80 cases

Twofifty...Here we get a bit annel again. Some will say I trim too much, but it's my way and I'll keep doing it as I please.

.30-06...I trim when the cases exceed maximum length because I don't crimp these cases.
.30-30...I trim to proper trim length so that every case is the same length so that every crimp is identical.
9mm X 19 and .45 ACP I never trim as they never seem to grow enough to need trimming before I either loose them or I can't read the head stamp. Which ever comes first. (my Colt .45 ACP does prefer the case to be .890")
.38 Special and .357 magnum are trimmed the same as the thirty-thirty cases as I want the crimp to be in the same place and consistent from one case to another.
Basically if there is a cannelure on the bullet and a crimp is applied I want them to be the same. If there isn't a cannelure than I don't worry about trimming them until they need it.

twofifty · Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:19 am Post subject: Re: goofed 80 cases

I'm actually quite happy starting out on this learning curve to do with internalizing common sense habits, keeping the eyes in my head and those at my fingertips busy sensing what is going on, and keeping track of the who-what-where-whens and whys.

The outcomes and the solutions really do boil down to the uniqueness of each chamber-barrel-cartridge configuration.

Just spinning the dials in a so-called mass-produced world of 'identical' stuff.

Its late.

sniper · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: Re: goofed 80 cases

Bushy: I like your procedures.

I just read a post on another forum where the fellow never trims his pistol brass, but uses the "feel" to crimp properly. It sounds like he hates trimming almost as much as I do. Mad

I have about given up trying to adjust my lathe type trimmer to get consistent, repeatable case lengths, and gone back to what I started with, the Lee trimmers, which work a treat!

This other fellow's procedure is to run the case into his seat/crimp die till he feels the case mouth bump aginst the crimper. Then he turns the die down by a turn or two, and locks it down. Through trial and error, gets the bullet to seat and crimp fully. He says he feels a "bump" when the case mouth hits the bottom of the crimping groove.

All done, he says; length doesn't matter, (that's a first time for that! Shocked

) and accuracy is not much affected by length variations in cases.

Hmmmm....somehow, I have never ben able to develop the "feel" to try anything like that... Sad

I have enough trouble adjusting my Dillon taper/roll crimp die to provide a good roll crimp, as it is.

I guess , to each his own, but it is amazing to see how many techniques have been developed to achieve good, accurate, consistent ammunition. And, most of them work well!

Bushmaster · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: Re: goofed 80 cases

sniper...I use a 20 year old RCBS Case Trimmer 2. If I do my job it seems to stay within +/- .002 of my setting.

twofifty · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: Re: goofed 80 cases

Ok, the Lee Collet die has arrived. Now I see its mandrel includes a decap pin that is not removable....so neck sizing these 80 goofed primed cases is not a go.

I then solved the problem by partially FL sizing the 80 cases with a FL die, first removing the decap pin but leaving the expander ball. Worked like a charm and all 80 cases are now inspected and good to go. They hold a bullet and chamber fine.

From what active local shooters have said and what I've read here and there, the Lee Collet die works like a charm. Once I've fired these 80, I will put 'em through the Lee Collet and not fuss with full or partial case body sizing - till they need their second trim that is. It will be interesting to see how many firings it takes before they won't chamber.

sniper · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: Re: goofed 80 cases

Bushy;
Yeh.... mine's a Hornady/Pacific of about the same vintage. I guess I don't hold my mouth right, or something.
I finally get the thing adjusted so the length is right on, and the very next cut, it is off! It's enough to make the Pope cuss! I replaced the cutter, use feeler gauges and calipers to measure/adjust, Mad

and spend HOURS trying to get it right. AAARRGH!

Maybe it's time to invest in a new trimmer.

twofifty: I'm gonna try that with my rifle, too. Old dog, new trick, Old dawg, new trick...yes, I will! Very Happy

Bushmaster · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: Re: goofed 80 cases

I found that on my trimmer that a lot depends on how much pressure you apply to the crank handle. Just like working a press you must try to exert the same pressure each and everytime. Of course you already know that. Right? Very Happy

Twofifty...Glad everything worked out for you...Next? Very Happy

twofifty · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: goofed 80 cases

Bushmaster wrote:

Twofifty...Glad everything worked out for you...Next? Very Happy

Bushy, how on earth did you know there'd be another one? Wink

Bushmaster · Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: goofed 80 cases

Intuition... Very Happy

We've all been there and done that...

sniper · Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: Re: goofed 80 cases

Bushmaster wrote:

sniper...I use a 20 year old RCBS Case Trimmer 2. If I do my job it seems to stay within +/- .002 of my setting.

Bushy:
Just had a natter with a Hornady tech, and he came up with the answer to my problem. Case head thickness variations! Bang Head

DUH! I KNEW that! But, somehow, it didn't sink in till this A.M. Thank you, Hornady!

And I was expecting too much of my trimmer. Embarassed

I opened my caliper to .003, which is more that the average variation I experience, and it is a TINY little gap; visible with a strong light behind it. Twice that is still very little, and not enough to worry about in the grand scheme of things.
I'm going back to the principle of trim it to near minimum or slightly less, and FEAR NOT! Very Happy

But, the discussion did get me to thinking, and produced some answers.