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Bushmaster Super Member
Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 11390 Location: Ava, Missouri
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Aloysius Super Member
Joined: Nov 03, 2009 Posts: 2438 Location: B., Belgium
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Neck Tension |
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I got also the impression that brass becomes stiffer and harder by aging. For my Hornet I was presented very old Winchester amno and normally the Winchester 45 grs HP factory round works very good in my Anschütz. But this old Winchester rounds are no good for hunting because often the cases get cracks in the neck (which make that the holes on my target appear about 2" lower than normal at 100m). And even it's a once fired case, it's no good for reloading, because it has already a split neck.
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Ominivision1 Super Member
Joined: Sep 20, 2010 Posts: 2984 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Neck Tension |
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That is definitely true Aloysius, I've had brass from 40 to 60 years ago that were re sized and some that were not, doesn't matter, all cases cracked after firing! The only way around this is to anneal the neck again, and even then annealing very old cases don't always turn out good.
_________________ Regards
Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds. |
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8314 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Neck Tension |
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Ominivision1 wrote: |
So it appears to me, if you load your components immediately after resizing, you will have less neck tension. And if you load cases that have been already resized sitting for a month or so, you will have more neck tension. |
OV1, I'll have to think about this some more and figure out how to consider it. The new Nosler Brass I was using was, in fact, probably 10 years old, just never opened. I did reload them about 30 minutes after running them through the sizing die.
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8314 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Neck Tension |
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Bushmaster wrote: |
That one, Omni, might be that the resized cases that were set aside for a monthor two have [due to elasticity] slowly returned to near original dimensions. |
Ok, Bushy. Every case I have resize has come out of the die with a smaller neck than when it went in. Thus, if what you say is the situation, the neck diameter would be bigger. How does neck tension increase if the case neck has a larger diameter?
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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chambered221 Super Member
Joined: Aug 17, 2007 Posts: 3455 Location: Lost for good !!!
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Neck Tension |
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So how did this story end ???
My brass is always tumbled and then I use a brush on the inside of the neck.
When I changed over to a Redding S-die I had the same issue with neck tension. I went with a tighter bushing and started using the expander button.
In my opinion neck thickness .003-.005 are fine for our applications.
Completely uniforming necks for a standard chamber will often lead to other issues.
Be sure to use a ball micrometer when measuring neck thickness. It's the only way to get an accurate reading.
_________________ Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!
A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington |
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8314 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Neck Tension |
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I did come up with a way to measure the force. It was significantly different going into a new case (like butter in and out) and lever-slamming to pull the bullets out of a sized case that had been once-fired: night and day. there was no way that I was going to be able to use a spring hanging scale to measure the extraction force. I make sure I keep my new cases separate and use fired cases to hunt with.
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8314 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Neck Tension |
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I found a force scale that would work with my RCBS Single Stag Press. I had already changed my .270 Win neck resizing button from .300 to .302 to decrease tension. I no longer have to slam the handle to pull a bullet.
Today, I used 150gr VLDs and 140gr Barnes TSX and did a bullet pull test. I only used a couple of cases so this is not a large sample but it demonstrates there is a significant difference. I used Winchester brass and all cases, fired or not, when through the neck sizing button. Here what I found.
New Brass
31 pounds - 150gr VLD
52 pounds - 140gr TSX
Fired Brass
49 pounds - 150gr VLD
65 pounds - 140gr TSX
You can see that the grooves in the TSX increase neck tension. Now imagine how much higher the tension would have been with a .300" bushing with the TSX.
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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shahidsaif Rookie Member
Joined: Jan 12, 2013 Posts: 3
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Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: Neck Tension |
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you are sent the nice post now.
slimjim wrote: |
I found a force scale that would work with my RCBS Single Stag Press. I had already changed my .270 Win neck resizing button from .300 to .302 to decrease tension. I no longer have to slam the handle to pull a bullet.
Today, I used 150gr VLDs and 140gr Barnes TSX and did a bullet pull test. I only used a couple of cases so this is not a large sample but it demonstrates there is a significant difference. I used Winchester brass and all cases, fired or not, when through the neck sizing button. Here what I found.
New Brass
31 pounds - 150gr VLD
52 pounds - 140gr TSX
Fired Brass
49 pounds - 150gr VLD
65 pounds - 140gr TSX
You can see that the grooves in the TSX increase neck tension. Now imagine how much higher the tension would have been with a .300" bushing with the TSX. |
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9239 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: Neck Tension |
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?? hmmmmm????
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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chambered221 Super Member
Joined: Aug 17, 2007 Posts: 3455 Location: Lost for good !!!
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Neck Tension |
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Elvis wrote: |
?? hmmmmm???? |
Yea !!! Do we offer up a beer out of the cooler or an interpreter ???
_________________ Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!
A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington |
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Elvis Super Member
Joined: Jul 27, 2008 Posts: 9239 Location: south island New Zealand
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Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Neck Tension |
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my thoughts eggzachary.....
_________________ You shot it You pluck it !
Them who eats the most duck eats the most feathers! |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15704 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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slimjim Super Member
Joined: May 16, 2009 Posts: 8314 Location: Fort Worth TX
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Neck Tension |
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I provide this valuable information and all you gun nuts can talk about is the spammer!?!?
Chambered might as well be lost again and Elvis can eat feathers!
_________________ "To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt
"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein |
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Vince Site Admin
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 15704 Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Neck Tension |
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_________________ Cheers, Vince
Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)
Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.
"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done) |
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