very good on goats too. Im not saying the 17 is bad just that the humble hornet is great.

Vince, I've also killed a lot of fallow deer with my anschütz in .22 Hornet, but I don't call it hunting, because it's in a closed garden. I shoot at 70-100 m in the ear or in the neck where it meets the head with a 45 grs Hornet bullet from Sierra. Works great and it is a very safe round + rather quite. When you hit them at front on their head, you knock them down but they're only KO. I cannot recommend this because approaching with a knife in your hand a wild animal that still can kick might bring some tension in your life... (and some cuts in your body).
As long as it's not windy and the distance is not too long, the .22 Hornet is a mighty round that doesn't disturb the neighbours and just desintigrate on impact. What else do you need from a round?

Fair call Aloys. I've shot fallow in the neck with a .223 Remington and that drops them like a stone.

I think the little 22 Hornet is a much maligned, or lowly considered, calibre that does some wonderful things in the right hands.

Cheers, Vince

If you are still thinking of a .17 caliber, I would strongly recommend the .17 Remington. It can be loaded down to match .17 HMR velocities or all the way up to push a 25-grain bullet to 4,000+ fps and a 20-grain bullet to over 4,400 fps with H4895 and CFE .223 powders (though that is a bit excessive and unnecessary). There isn't anything wrong with the .17 Fireball, but the Remington has been around for years and brass isn't hard to find. I have two .17 Remingtons; one sighted for my small hoard of Remington 25-grain bullets at 4,000 fps, and the other sighted for Hornady V-Max 20-grain bullets at a little over 4,300 fps. Out to 300 yards, it makes it pretty much point-and-shoot.

Had thought of the 22 Hornet and even wait for the 17 Hornet but it might be a wait here.
Everyone I know says go for the Fireball less of a barrel burner or fussy over a dirty barrel than a .17 remington but that what they say or have heard.

there are plenty of hornets around to buy aswell, and if you want to muck around with loads you have a great/huge variaty of loads to chose from.
the 40 and 45grn pills made for the hornet are good soft and expand well, the .222 has a better reputation than the .223 on larger game because the 50 grain projectiles are softer and expand better whereas the .223 has usually been loaded with hard pills.

there are plenty of hornets around to buy aswell, and if you want to muck around with loads you have a great/huge variaty of loads to chose from.
the 40 and 45grn pills made for the hornet are good soft and expand well, the .222 has a better reputation than the .223 on game because the 50 grain projectiles are softer and expand better whereas the .223 has usually been loaded with hard pills.

Elvis, do you hunt with the .222 Rem? I'm starting to like this caliber but I'm not convinced that I have a good hunting load. I now tried the 60 grs Spire H.P. of Hornady (#2275) with 21,0 grs PCl507 (a local powder with a burning rate of about Hodgdon's BL-C(2) or Winchester 748). It's shooting very accurate. I've shot (this week) 2 little roedeer (younger than 1 year) and they dropped on the spot, but I'm a little concerned about meatlosses. It seems I have a lot more blood than when I'm using a 30-30 Win or a 7 mm Mauser.
By the way: most of our shooting is at distances smaller than 100-150 m.
Any suggestions?

And I know it's not about a .17 R.F., but it's still about these small rounds and what could make them better...

clembob wrote:

Had thought of the 22 Hornet and even wait for the 17 Hornet but it might be a wait here. Everyone I know says go for the Fireball less of a barrel burner or fussy over a dirty barrel than a .17 remington but that what they say or have heard.

I'd say you are right and I think Mr. Ackley agrees He liked the smaller cases on the 17's also and his opinion carries more weight then mine.

Don't forget the .218 Bee and its spawn.

Aloysius wrote:

Elvis, do you hunt with the .222 Rem? I'm starting to like this caliber but I'm not convinced that I have a good hunting load. I now tried the 60 grs Spire H.P. of Hornady (#2275) with 21,0 grs PCl507 (a local powder with a burning rate of about Hodgdon's BL-C(2) or Winchester 748). It's shooting very accurate. I've shot (this week) 2 little roedeer (younger than 1 year) and they dropped on the spot, but I'm a little concerned about meatlosses. It seems I have a lot more blood than when I'm using a 30-30 Win or a 7 mm Mauser. By the way: most of our shooting is at distances smaller than 100-150 m. Any suggestions? And I know it's not about a .17 R.F., but it's still about these small rounds and what could make them better...

I own and use a .223, my big brother had a bruno fox in .222 for years and it was a great wee rifle that I shot quite a few animals with.
most .222 loads that ive seen factory are 45grn or 50 grn. my pet load for my .223 is speer 52grn hp loaded to just over 3000fps by the manual thats pretty close to what big bro used in the .222 .these and 50grn speer hps loaded to about the same is whats sitting in the cupboard to use. from what I saw when shooting wallabies of which I shot alot. 10-20 every couple of months to feed the dogs. the fmj type projectiles we used norico were very hot and killed ok but didnt do much unless they hit bone. I tried hornady 50 grn SPSX and man did they work good but lots of jellied meat around the bullet hole. the speer 52 seem to be working good for me so I will be sticking to them in the future the heavier weights I believe are more intended for the 22-250 or fast twist .223s out there now.

the other thing is where are you hitting them?? if you poke your projectile in the boiler room most of the blood loss will be internal. the neck would be a better option at that range and with the super accuracy of the trebly shouldnt pose any problems.

aloysis- I have had very good luck with sierra 63 grain semi pointed(not varminter type-as they have thin jackets)-these seem to have thicker jackets for slower expansion.Out of a 223 I push them at about 2800fps.Will push thru our little blacktails(about 150 lbs) and keep on going!Very little meat damaged or bloodshot.

clembob wrote:

Everyone I know says go for the Fireball less of a barrel burner or fussy over a dirty barrel than a .17 remington but that what they say or have heard.

Just like the .220 Swift, rumors of barrel burning and fouling are pretty much a tempest in a tea cup. There was a certain amount of truth with the Swift back when our powder choices weren't all that clean burning and somewhat abrasive and barrel steels weren't what they are now. Most of the bad press comes second, third or even fourth-hand rather than from actual owners and shooters. After all, the .204 Ruger is a darling of the need-for-speed crowd and no one complains about fouling or barrel ruination. I shoot both of my .17s quite a bit and, other than thorough cleaning now and then, take no special care of them. No "fouling" issues have ever developed and accuracy is excellent with both. I am currently working with loads using Hodgdon's new CFE .223, which is supposed to have an "anti-copper fouling" agent, so that should be even less of an issue than now.

TRBLSHTR wrote:

:D aloysis- I have had very good luck with sierra 63 grain semi pointed(not varminter type-as they have thin jackets)-these seem to have thicker jackets for slower expansion.Out of a 223 I push them at about 2800fps.Will push thru our little blacktails(about 150 lbs) and keep on going!Very little meat damaged or bloodshot.

I like Sierra. I've been looking in their list but I think the 63 grs SMP is only available as varminter-type.
Till now I also tried their 45 grs Hornet bullet (because I'm already using that in my .22 Hornet). Also in the .222 Rems it's giving good accuracy but at this speed it's also giving a lot of blood between skin and meat at the entrance wound.
I also tried their 52 grs HPBT which is mighty accurate, but I'm not feeling confedent using that on game. Last year I lost 1 buck (altough I hit him rather good, maybe 2-3" higher than normal in the boiler room, I saw the exit wound when he turned and walked away - even the dogs couldn't find him which was very strange). And another young one I shot and the bullet completely splintered. That buck dropped down immedeatly. That same bullet on a feral cat at about 100 m did not perform as expected because it was no instant kill, had to go over for another shot.
And I know I can go for the neck, but a neckshot doesn't tell anything about performance of a bullet.

I can live with the performance of the 60 grs Spire H.P. of Hornady, but I'm still trying to improve. Maybe I'll get that 63 grs SMP of Sierra ready for buckseason which will start here at 15th of May.
I like that 160 grs SMP .264 caliber of Sierra in the 6.5x54 MS, maybe that 63 grs SMP you mentioned will also surprise me in the .222 Rem.

I think reloaders need a very long life and even then they will die still testing and looking for a better round.