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.44 magnum
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:01 am    Post subject: .44 magnum Reply with quote

OK, Scratch so Im about to start loading some rounds for a chap,thought I was sorted with four powders that would work,then rechecked and it seems that lilgun is really the only option Mad with the 260-270-280 grn weight projectiles I have,problem being scarcity of hard data for the combo,so did some digging,this is what Ive come up with...

right so have finally found hard data...sort of. Scratch .. paper loading manual,up to date for winchester,ADI ,hodgdon powders
I have from said manual
24.5 grns lilgun with a 240 grn projectile AND 17.7 grns lilgun with a 300 grn projectile

also found in handloader magazine online and confirmed by MD Smith data online 19-21grns with a 270grn projectile



so out came pencil,paper and Japanese brain (calculator)

if I drop charge weight a little bit to begin and end......and fill in the gaps with a 1.2grn drop in powder per 10grns projectile increase

240grn pill=====24grn lilgun..down .5 grn
250grn=======22.8
260grn=======21.6
270grn=======20.4.....sitting close to the middle range
280grn=======19.2
290grn=======18
300grn=======16.8..down .9 grn

I BELIEVE that should put me in safe loading range because Ive dropped down from maximum to begin with...the middle 270grn on my made up chart sits alongside what I can find so sort of confirms it....
looks like the AS30N and AS50N arent any use to me unless I find lighter projectiles they are red n green dot comparable.... and trailboss,well it looks to only give low velocity loads anyway.....

open to verification or DONT DO IT,you way outside of safe if thats what your numbers tell you.
will be used in a modern break open which gives me option to seat long to further reduce pressure,OR increase charge at later date if its warranted.
what say you folks??? am I on right track????

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:08 am    Post subject: Re: .44 magnum Reply with quote

Elvis, you forgot to mention a very important item: what kind of gun??? My S&W Model 29 with 8 3/8" barrel was my first handgun and I discovered the hard way that a revolver can have more power/powder than the Winchester lever action in the same caliber. Behind the chamber the revolver has a gap were it loses a lot of pressure before the bullet enters the barrel. And pay very much attention on the kind of bullet used: a lead bullet (be it hard or softer) needs fast powder and low speed. When you don't folow this advice you'll have poor accuraty and a lot of leading in the barrel starting behind the forcing cone. A heavy load with slow powder and magnum primers will need a jacketed bullet.

And speaking from experience: be careful with that gap a revolver has between cylinder and barrel. A lot of hot high pressure gasses leaving there with each shot can hurt a lot of things. So when you shoot for accuraty on a benchrest, put your hands on the rest but not the barrel! If not you'll see the results very fast...
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:22 am    Post subject: Re: .44 magnum Reply with quote

begara single shot break open rifle...2nd to last line in above post LOL....

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:24 am    Post subject: Re: .44 magnum Reply with quote

projectiles I have are cast and have a copper cup/gascheck on the bum. lilgun is a fast powder....the two shotgun powders are faster still,and trailboss is very fast but an oddball type thing.....

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: .44 magnum Reply with quote

Solly, must be the heat...
I'll try to look for my notes. I used PRB-powders at that time and I remember that my best results with lead bullets were with PCl504, a powder that's about the burning rate of 630 W-W or IMR 4756. For magnum loads with jacketed bullets I used PCL512 and later H110 and N110 Vitha. When I used PCL512 with lead bullets I had lots of problems...
I never added a filler but always gave my gun a light tap with the barrel pointing high, which in my mind brings the powder close to the primer.
And now I realize that my 44's stayed in the safe far to long. I even don't remember why I've stopped my tests with the lever action, I even did put a Leopold scope with extended eye relieve on that... must be that I got a Marlin in 45/70 afterwards and found it more versitile...

BTW: those Begaras are light, short and handy. A friend is doing all his hunting with such a rifle in 308 Win and loves it.
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Vince
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: .44 magnum Reply with quote

I assume this powder is still available Elvis…the “go to” powder for jacketed .44 Mag when I was shooting pistols was WW296 or AR 2205. For cast loads, any of the fast burning pistol powders or shotgun powders were used by the target shooters.

I must admit, I’ve never loaded for a .44 Mag rifle, but I think pistol load data for cast loads would be safe and useable in a rifle.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: .44 magnum Reply with quote

yip its still available IF YOU CAN FIND IT,also known as h110 ...Ive got half a tub in north island LOL,might have to get it sent down,in a peanut butter jar not labeled,the couriers make life VERY difficult these days....what they dont know wont hurt them....
pistol loads are lighter in the .357mag so I sort of assumed they would be for this one as well..... the 2 shotgun powders I have are both usable with lighter projectile weights,but the velocity isnt ideal....these loads will be for snotting bailed pigs and slow loads might seem ideal,but can be pitiful if spinal column of brain is missed ,so I will load them up to reasonable speed and then tweak as necessary to suit .

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: .44 magnum Reply with quote

it also looks like a 6grn charge of AS30N will be safe slower load with the 260grn projectile,if not all three.... doesnt seem to change the powder weight by stuff all when projectile weight changes when using such a small charge of fast burning powder....there is .2 grn difference between 200grn(6.4) and 240grn (6.2)pill charge weights so dropping down to 6grns for a 260 should be slightly on low side if anything...and jacketed loads of same weight have much higher powder charge ,suggesting pressure isnt going to be an issue....

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: .44 magnum Reply with quote

265
Green Dot
7.8
1045
NA
1.62
Fed 150
Suggested starting load: 7.0 gr
Pressure: 35,000 PSI



Submitted By: Alliant

this in our reloading base gives me further hope ....

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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: .44 magnum Reply with quote

Well, I suppose this is what load development is all about mate…however, be careful, very careful, using fast burning powders. Pressure spikes are not unheard of mate…and they can be very unforgiving.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: .44 magnum Reply with quote

I hear you Mate..... made up 14 loads for bud to try.... 4 of each lil gun load rounded down to nearest full grain and did just 2 of the 260s with 6 grns AS30N

just to see how they go... will advice to remove suppressor when testing,just incase load throws a wobbly and decides not to stabalise,would hate to poke hole in baffles or end of suppressor....
left them on long side,EG the lube groove just inside case so longer than normal as not being fed through an action....it should help keep pressures down. will see if can find spec for the begaras and see if they have decent long leade...

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:10 am    Post subject: Re: .44 magnum Reply with quote

Elvis wrote:
yip its still available IF YOU CAN FIND IT,also known as h110 ...Ive got half a tub in north island LOL,might have to get it sent down,in a peanut butter jar not labeled,the couriers make life VERY difficult these days....what they dont know wont hurt them....
pistol loads are lighter in the .357mag so I sort of assumed they would be for this one as well..... the 2 shotgun powders I have are both usable with lighter projectile weights,but the velocity isnt ideal....these loads will be for snotting bailed pigs and slow loads might seem ideal,but can be pitiful if spinal column of brain is missed ,so I will load them up to reasonable speed and then tweak as necessary to suit .

IMHO that's wrong. Unless you talk about 'pistol' when you don't think 'revolver'. Or when your 'pistol' is a semi-automatic. But for me: I'm using less power loads in the lever action than in the revolver, be it .357 RM of .44 RM. You lose a lot of pressure in the gap between cylinder and barrel... pressure you don't lose in the lever action (or the Begara).
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:49 am    Post subject: Re: .44 magnum Reply with quote

I remember vividly the factory loads from 30 years ago...if we used revolver/pistol loads for the 357 mag in a rifle they were shockingly slow/weak...and the rifle loads were much hotter.
there is two lots of load data for the 44 magnum and the rifle stuff is hotter than for pistol

I believe the shotgun powder type loads are all catered to cowboy action levels eg below 1000fps....so 7-800 is perfectly fine....

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: .44 magnum Reply with quote

Hodgdon website shows H110 at 20.5 as a maximum with 280 grain bullet (I chose that weight as a mid-range for your mentioned choices) at 1,342 fps from an 8.275" barrel revolver. They show the exact same load as max for rifles at 1,510 fps with a 20" barrel.
Though not a hard and fast rule, this is common, and equal loads in many cartridges often result in 200 to 400 fps gain in rifles over revolvers, depending on the cartridge. Barrel/cylinder gap plays a very small role in this discrepancy. Barrel length plays a much more important part. Rifle velocities increase by at least 150 fps when comparing identical loads between a 14" Contender and a 20" rifle. Now we are comparing closed-breech to closed-breech and the rifle still shows the superior velocity.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: .44 magnum Reply with quote

will find out today how good/bad my reloads are..... will take my spare press with me just incase the leaving them longer than spec length doesnt work out...no issue to squeaze them in a tad more as crimp was deemed unnecessary being a single shot break open.

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