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Annealing Brass
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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toddco
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:12 am    Post subject: Annealing Brass Reply with quote

Does anyone have a decisive method on how to anneal brass? Also, has anyone studied how much it improves accuracy?

Thanks,

Toddco
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass Reply with quote

It seems to me that a lot of re-loaders refuse to accept the "decisive method" due to the expense involved.

If you were to surf the benchrest forums you'll find a host of threads and articles that mimic the link I've posted.

www.lasc.us/CartridgeC...ealing.htm

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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:15 am    Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass Reply with quote

Annealing isn't usually thought of as an accuracy enhancement as much as a way to make brass last longer. Each time a piece of brass is worked by either sizing in your dies or even firing in a chamber it gets a little bit harder and thus more brittle. This is called "work hardening" and can substantially shorten case life. Annealing extends the working life of brass by returning it to its normal softer and more elastic state. It is particularly important if forming cases from another caliber as it eases the forming process and helps limit cracks and stress.

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sniper
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:17 am    Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass Reply with quote

I'm not sure if it is an accuracy enhancer, or is more to extend the life of the brass, but the latest issue of Handloader has an article, recommending a system by a friend of the writer.(I think)

No info on where to buy, or how much, and it does use two propane torches.
Despite John Barnsness' article in the same publication some time ago, which used a plumber's candle and a wet towel, there doesn't appear to be any way to simply and inexpen$ively anneal cases.

But, in real life, how often is it really necessary?
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fnuser
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass Reply with quote

I simply put an inch of water in a 9x13 cake pan using a mapp gas torch i go back and forth on the necks until they are cherry in a dim room (which usually puts the "rainbow" pretty close to where lapua puts it) then knock the brass over with the tip of the torch. After a little practice you can figure out how many you can do at a time. The water prevents the casehead from being annealed and quenches the brass. the depth of the water needs to cover the brass completely when it is on its side. I usually use this on 6mm-.284 Winchester brass formed from .284 winchester as it has been necked sized several times by the first firing-resizing cycle. however when 6.5 norma is available this is unneccesary.

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toddco
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass Reply with quote

So after reading every article i could find on annealing brass, here are my conclusions. Brass anneals best when you get the necks to 650 degrees f.
This takes about 4-6 seconds with a slim flame propane torch. I put each brass inside a deep socket that i had in my drill. While turning the case in the drill i applied the heat to the neck. In order to tell when i had the neck at the right temp. i purchased a temp. stick. Actually i bought 2, 1 for 650 degrees and 1 for 450 degrees. To use these sticks you heat the brass, touch the brass with the stick and if stick melts you have reached temp. After a little practice i became very proficient. I did some by touching the 650 stick on the neck and some by touching the 450 just lower than the shoulder. They seem to be annealed very well and i look forward to shooting some of them to see if i get consistent velocity from them now.
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SingleShotLover
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass Reply with quote

toddco wrote:
They seem to be annealed very well and i look forward to shooting some of them to see if i get consistent velocity from them now.

Not likely that annealing will cure velocity fluctuation problems. This is the first you have mentioned that. What kind of problems are you having?

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toddco
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass Reply with quote

I am trying to achieve consistent velocity. I read that once annealed, brass will be more consistent throughout the neck, which in turn should hold the bullet with the same pressure all the way around, helping in consistent velocities. With consistent velocities accuracy should improve. Thoughts?
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chambered221
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass Reply with quote

Annealing brass is low on the list of things to do in achieving a consistent velocity !!!

Inconsistent neck thickness, and primer pockets are more likely the issue when dealing with the case itself.

What are you getting in the way of extreme spread and standard deviation ???

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass Reply with quote

Ive never heard of annealing used for an accuracy enhancer. Its used to "preserve" the brass, i.e. make it last longer. I'm with Chambered, it would be awfully low on my list of things to try if I was looking for more accuracy.

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toddco
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass Reply with quote

Sometimes velocity is within 3-5fps, other times it is 50-60- fps. all of my brass is the same, the same weight, the same lot, the same length. The only thing i haven't done is turn the necks, which for my factory rifle is probably a waste of time?
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Donut Slayer
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass Reply with quote

toddco wrote:
Sometimes velocity is within 3-5fps, other times it is 50-60- fps. all of my brass is the same, the same weight, the same lot, the same length. The only thing i haven't done is turn the necks, which for my factory rifle is probably a waste of time?
are you shooting at the same temps? shooting at 30 degrees one day and 80 the next will cause some problems.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass Reply with quote

60 fps variation, while higher than I like is still only 2% variation.
There are a number of variables that can affect velocity.
Barometric pressure, temperature, cartridge expansion, charge variations, and gun temperatures are a few. If you full length size then try some new brass and after the first firing just neck size to see if the velocities are more consistant.

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass Reply with quote

I have just cruised through three web sites that I visit frequently... All three have threads related to annealing!!

The consensus form the other boards.. One a varmint hunting site the other a competion rifle site, is that for ultimate accuracy and repeatability annealing and neck turning combined will lower your SD and ES and improve accuracy. It will also extend the case life so for which ever reason you do it... the benefits have a bonus.

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toddco
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:09 am    Post subject: Re: Annealing Brass Reply with quote

I guesss that i should also add that i only neck size my brass, it has been fired more than once. I use the rcbs electronic scale and every time i check it with my balance beam it is accurate. These variations come from the same shooting day within the same groups. Is it possible that this powder/bullet combo is something that i should change up?
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