Our worse adversary.

Handloader · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:48 pm Post subject: Our worse adversary.

Another large tract of public land is being taken out of useage for target shooting here in Arizona. Its called Table Mesa and lies north of Phoenix. This area borders the Lake Pleasant Recreation area and has been multi use for years. ATVs, dirt bikes and 4WD are often used in this area and have been compatible with gravel pits and some minor ranching, but, it has been an alternative to formal gunranges for shooters, too. The Lake Pleasant Preservation Society is spearheading the effort to change the status of Table Mesa for firearm useage. In my opinion, they have a valid issue, regardless of their underlying agenda(s).

No segment of the land users in this area are more disrespectful of the land and environment than shooters. There are few areas on Table Mesa where one doesn't find shotshell hulls and 7.62X39, 223 and 22lr cases. Thousands upon thousands of them. Despite cleanup efforts by sportsmen, the litter increases beyond their ability. TVs, waterheaters, glass bottles, all shot to pieces. Saguaro cactus, too. Disintegrated clay pigeons lay everywhere. It is an eyesore and a mess. It has taken a pristine desert area and turned to blight.

More closures will follow as the population of Arizona increases unabated. Everytime a shooter goes to public land and leaves their cases, their hulls, their clay pigeons on the ground, they degrade the land and provide excuses for restrictions and closures. Our worse adversary? Not the preservation societies, not the liberals, not the anti gunners. We are our worse adversary.

If this is a redundant post, its because I'm angered and I have to search for a new area to shoot in the desert.

kbis · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Our worse adversary.

Sorry to hear of your loss, I have seen the same thing over and over again when I lived in S. Ca.. If people would just pick up after them selves.

george20042007 · Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:29 pm Post subject: Re: Our worse adversary.

Sorry to hear about another area being closed down. You are right, all it takes is a little cleaning up after your shoot.
Keep it coming...

squirrelbait · Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Our worse adversary.

Handloader, something along this line was posted last year but we need to hear it over and over again. Unfortunately it is preaching to the choir. I have seen this happen in Ca. , Iowa , and here in NH. We need to police our own. Thanks for the message.

DallanC · Site Admin Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 3572 Location: Utah

That is disappointing to hear. Sorry

-DallanC

Vince · Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:55 am Post subject: Re: Our worse adversary.

Don't know what is wrong with people these days. They don't seem to have any sort of sense of responsibility or social values. When I was a kid we were taught to pick up after ourselves and to respect others and others property....just doesn't seem to happen these days.

I can't understand why supposedly sensible people have to shoot the hell out of something then just leave the mess where it falls.

Very disappointing to hear that the actions of some is going to have a detrimental effect of many.

Cheers, Vince

Arizona Hunter · Member Joined: Jul 22, 2006 Posts: 275

Hi Handloader, you are right to be angry. I live in central PHX but like to shoot out near Sugarloaf MT (E. of Ft. McDowell Res) that is 43 miles one way, and I am astounded at the stupiditiy and outright disregard for the land and other people. Propane bottles!Glass bottles!Chairs, road signs..... And then some folks wonder why areas get closed forever.

Last year in the Sugarloaf/Four Peaks area there was a huge cleanup it took a few dump trucks to haul it all away.

We all know who gets blamed, right? Hunters. The antis think every one that goes target shooting is a hunter.

I better sign off, this is a real sore spot for me.....

Handloader · Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: Our worse adversary.

I appreciate all the sympathy messages and your sentiments, but, the reason I posted initially was to suggest that we as hunters and shooting enthusiasts need to become more vigilant of those that have yet to learn the importance of cleaning up after themselves. How do we do this?

By example is one way. Whenever I shoot on public lands I have several trash bags with me. Often they come back filled with the debris others have left behind.

By correcting shooters you observe trashing an area.

By initiating clean up campaigns with local shooting organizations. In Arizona, for example, the Good Gun Foundation is responsive to such efforts.

By having signage placed in areas used for public shooting which admonish others about proper public land useage and their responsibility to take their trash out with them.

By involving the media in getting the message across. This has to be done selectively, but, can also be effective. Publicity about our cleanup efforts can be a useful tool if done correctly.

What other ideas to you have?

squirrelbait · Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: Re: Our worse adversary.

Handloader, good point. We need to collectively come up some fixes.
Another avenue might be to work with the state hunter safety instructors and those that set curriculum. I know in NH the instructors mention "hunting ethics" but I don't believe it is stressed as much as it could be. It would be good to show some pictures of how some areas are left and statements from land owners who put up with it............or have decided not to.
Again, this a subject that rattles my cage........and my kids know it.
Another point.......be sure we set the standards for our kids and their buddies.

Arizona Hunter · Member Joined: Jul 22, 2006 Posts: 275

Good points. My friends and I always take back more than we brought out.

I sure will talk to the instuctors i know in this area to strees the ethics /cleanup more in the classes.

tbox61 · Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Our worse adversary.

Squirrel and Arizona:
I agree with you guys fully! I am a Hunter Ed instructor here in Kansas. I know the classes I have taught and the instructors I have certified over the years know I stress strongly in the Ethics portion of the class to leave the area cleaner than you found it! Some instructors do not do that, and I think that they have not either seen some of the stuff first hand, or do not know how serious it can be if our hunting access is taken away from us. Here in KS, 98% of the ground is privately owned, so for every person that does something goofy and makes a landowner mad, our group loses.

Case in point--My uncle put a prime piece of pheasant hunting property in Kansas' Walk in Hunting Access program. It basically turns private ground into public ground for the hunting season. Last year, I hunted the ground late on a Saturday afternoon. When I pulled up, I noticed a pile, 16 to be exact, pheasant carcasses piled on each other. They had been field dressed, but the waste was not taken care of, just left in a pile. My hunting was cut short in order to clean this up, (I always carry trash bags like Handloader). When I told my uncle about this incident, he didn't respond immediately, but indicated he would take care of it. He called me back after the season and let me know that I would have this property all to myself this year, as he would not be putting it in the program again. Kind of a bittersweet victory--I now have access to this parcel solely, but how much ground did I lose out on in this program that someone else's uncle took out of the program for this same reason!?!?

The unfortunate part is that non-hunters see this refuse, and say, "Ah, looks like a 'hunter' was here!" Unfortunately, in my classes we refer to them as slobs, not hunters or sportsmen. True hunters and sportsmen have more respect for the land, the game and the landowner than that.

Just my rant, and humble .02!

Tim