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OAL with VLD Bullets
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:56 am    Post subject: Re: OAL with VLD Bullets Reply with quote

Mac, it's not only the size of the hole that matters, also where you place it. Have a look at Knobloch glasses, they come with a black plastic funnel to adjust the place of the hole (and that's different for handgunshooting and for rifle).

FYI: www.knobloch-schiessbrillen.de/

look at "centering device"
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Grey_Wolf
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: OAL with VLD Bullets Reply with quote

Not arguing about Partitions, they work. But, I've had good experience with Berger bullets and would disagree that they are not a hunting bullet. Berger does sell some Target bullets Not recommended for hunting. What the difference is I don't know. They are usually the most accurate of what I test and have had them perform well on game. I wouldn't use them if they didn't perform or were inaccurate. The 30 cal 168 grain Match VLD Hunter or Match Classic Hunter work the best in both 30:06s in the house (I tried five different bullets) and in the 20 cal the 40 and 55 grain are awesome.
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:03 am    Post subject: Re: OAL with VLD Bullets Reply with quote

Grey wolf...great to hear your input/experiences
over here in Kiwiland alot/most of the loooooong range guys are running A-Max projectiles as they are very soft and break up nicely at the lower velocities they are striking game at...now MOST of these LR guys will tell you NOT to use them up close n personal,especially if trying the likes of a shoulder shot on big angry stag...but other fellas say they are good for all ranges.
personally I would prefer to match the horse to the course and use a basic cup n core or a barnes type for fast velocity rifles up close and keep the softer/target JACKETED projectiles eg AMax-bergers for long range...not that I will ever use them nosler ballistic tips do the job for me,at this time.

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PaulS
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:20 am    Post subject: Re: OAL with VLD Bullets Reply with quote

In the past all my hunting has been at very close range in moderately thick forest. Now that I have moved to the SE part of the state it is likely to be long range or not at all.

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: OAL with VLD Bullets Reply with quote

Grey_Wolf wrote:
I've had good experience with Berger bullets and would disagree that they are not a hunting bullet.

when I read this, I said to myself, Grey_Wolf is using .30-cal Bergers. They function as advertized. The issue is with the 6.5 to 7mm Berger Bullets. These all share the same copper jacket thickness and some are annealing the 7mm to get them to fragment. The structural integrity of the copper jacket only becomes stronger as the diameter goes down. I've never had a .270/6.8mm fragment or expand in any testing I've done. They yaw on impact and penetrate tail-first. This can be lethal but its not as certain as bullets that expand or fragment on impact. Hunters have found this caliber Berger laying on the ground/snow fully intact (see image). Check the forums, the .338 Bergers are having issues and going through steel without expanding.



berger vlds from caribou and performance test.jpg
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berger vlds from caribou and performance test.jpg


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Grey_Wolf
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: OAL with VLD Bullets Reply with quote

I don't think I'd read the part about 6.5 to 7mm when I posted. I will be doing some testing with 6.5 m Bergers on two 6.5 rifles. And I guess I'll find out in November when rifle season opens up. I have not heard of the problems you are reporting with them. In fact I've heard the opposite, that they break up too much and don't retain any weight. Something to watch for.
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: OAL with VLD Bullets Reply with quote

www.huntingnut.com/ind...cle&sid=84

Grey_Wolf, no need to wait. Make yourself a bullet trap and test for yourself. If you are not satisfied with the results, you will have time to work up another bullet.

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Last edited by slimjim on Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:43 am; edited 2 times in total
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:51 am    Post subject: Re: OAL with VLD Bullets Reply with quote

SST or 140 grn partition would be my first two places to look in 6.5mm without a shadow of doubt ,with the Nosler getting first place.

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Grey_Wolf
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: OAL with VLD Bullets Reply with quote

Well I have Partitions, Accubonds, Berger VLD Hunting and Chinchaga all in 140 grain. I'm sure at least one of them will work just fine. Once done with the 140's I'll look at something a little smaller. Even though I have two 20 cals for coyotes I can't help but work up a load for yotes in all the guns.
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: OAL with VLD Bullets Reply with quote

Accbonds and Partitions are both excellent bullets, They have some fragmentation but retain enough weight for better penetration. If I could have only one, I'd go with the Accubond but not the AccuBond Long Range. The ABLR is so soft it fragements more than any bullet I've tested. In my .270 at 400 yards it was still losing 66% of its weight and would only penetrate as deep as a .223 bullet.

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Grey_Wolf
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: OAL with VLD Bullets Reply with quote

Oh? Hmm and I have some of the new 142 grain long range on order... They should be good for stretching out the legs though. Truthfully most of my shots are under 250 yards, the long range stuff is more for targets though you never know ..
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PaulS
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: OAL with VLD Bullets Reply with quote

All of the VLD bullets require a very fast (for caliber) twist rate. They are longer and the center of gravity is further back on the bullet. Stabilizing them to a target takes less twist than hunting (hunting temps are lower and less humidity) where the density of the air is higher.
For hunting it is important that the bullet is stable after entry too so it will expand. If it pitches and goes through backwards it does a lot less damage to the vitals.

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MacD
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: OAL with VLD Bullets Reply with quote

Although this post has wandered a bit, like they do, I feel the subject of proper bullet selection is important enough to add my own "IMHO". The most important element of humane hunting is marksmanship. If you can't guarantee you can hit a vital area then the rest doesn't matter. The other key factors are bullet selection and calibre. Leaving calibre aside for this discussion, bullet choice is left to mull over. Many hunters, in my experience, are not well informed on this subject. Just because a bullet has or under the right circumstances can produce a humane kill doesn't mean it is a good choice. Match bullets, all of them, fall into this category. Some match-like bullets have been designed for long range hunting and are recommended for this purpose. That is about as much as I intend to say on the subject as others, such as Slimjim, have substantially more knowledge of bullet design and performance than me.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: OAL with VLD Bullets Reply with quote

You have hit the nail squarely on the head Mac...it all comes down to "horses for courses". You would use a taxi for a sports car race or a moped for a motocross bike race, so it goes with bullet selection.

Unfortunately most times all we have to rely on is the manufacturers blurb and recommendations, but luckily for us here, we have the likes of Slim who is meticulous in his bullet testing and gives us the definitive answer when it comes to bullet selection.

Bottom line is you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, so don't use a match grade bullet (that provides brilliant accuracy as it's designed to do) for hunting and expect it to perform as good and efficiently as a quality hunting grade bullet. We owe it to our quarry to be as humane as possible.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:33 am    Post subject: Re: OAL with VLD Bullets Reply with quote

anyone who wants to have a look at what HUNTING bullets work in what cartridge..check out terminal ballistics research site.........
Nathan Foster has done a really great job of testing "real world" on mostly goats etc and tells it as he sees it.
hes a big fan of AMax for long range work and tells that how it is too...great to cut through the B.S. and get down to nitty gritty.

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