HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: RichardZ
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 13126

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 476
BOT: 1
Total: 477
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: News
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Home
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Home
15: Forums
16: Home
17: Your Account
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Photo Albums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Your Account
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Photo Albums
30: Forums
31: Photo Albums
32: Photo Albums
33: Home
34: Statistics
35: Forums
36: Home
37: Photo Albums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Photo Albums
41: Forums
42: Home
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Your Account
46: Home
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Home
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Photo Albums
54: Your Account
55: Your Account
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Your Account
60: Forums
61: Home
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Forums
68: Forums
69: Forums
70: Forums
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Your Account
75: Your Account
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Your Account
79: Forums
80: Forums
81: Your Account
82: Your Account
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Forums
86: Your Account
87: Statistics
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Your Account
93: Forums
94: Forums
95: Your Account
96: Forums
97: Home
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Your Account
103: Forums
104: Forums
105: Your Account
106: Home
107: Photo Albums
108: Forums
109: Forums
110: Forums
111: Home
112: Forums
113: Forums
114: Photo Albums
115: Forums
116: Forums
117: Forums
118: Home
119: Forums
120: Photo Albums
121: Forums
122: Forums
123: Forums
124: Your Account
125: Forums
126: Home
127: Home
128: Your Account
129: Forums
130: Photo Albums
131: Forums
132: Your Account
133: Forums
134: Your Account
135: Forums
136: Home
137: Home
138: Forums
139: Forums
140: Forums
141: Forums
142: Forums
143: Forums
144: Forums
145: Forums
146: Forums
147: Your Account
148: Forums
149: Forums
150: Forums
151: Forums
152: Forums
153: Forums
154: Forums
155: Forums
156: Forums
157: Forums
158: Forums
159: Forums
160: Forums
161: Forums
162: Photo Albums
163: Forums
164: Your Account
165: Photo Albums
166: Forums
167: Forums
168: Forums
169: Forums
170: Your Account
171: Photo Albums
172: Photo Albums
173: Forums
174: Forums
175: Photo Albums
176: Forums
177: Forums
178: Home
179: Forums
180: Forums
181: Forums
182: Forums
183: Your Account
184: Forums
185: Your Account
186: Forums
187: Forums
188: Home
189: Your Account
190: Home
191: Home
192: Your Account
193: Forums
194: Forums
195: Forums
196: Your Account
197: Forums
198: Photo Albums
199: Forums
200: Photo Albums
201: Forums
202: Home
203: Forums
204: Your Account
205: Home
206: Home
207: Forums
208: Forums
209: Photo Albums
210: Your Account
211: Your Account
212: Your Account
213: News
214: Home
215: Forums
216: Forums
217: Forums
218: Forums
219: Forums
220: Photo Albums
221: Forums
222: Forums
223: Forums
224: Forums
225: Forums
226: Photo Albums
227: Photo Albums
228: Forums
229: Forums
230: Forums
231: Forums
232: Forums
233: Forums
234: Forums
235: Photo Albums
236: Forums
237: Your Account
238: Forums
239: Your Account
240: Forums
241: Forums
242: Photo Albums
243: Forums
244: Photo Albums
245: Forums
246: Photo Albums
247: Forums
248: Your Account
249: Your Account
250: Forums
251: Forums
252: Forums
253: Forums
254: Forums
255: Forums
256: Forums
257: Forums
258: Forums
259: Home
260: Forums
261: Home
262: Forums
263: Forums
264: Forums
265: Forums
266: Forums
267: Forums
268: Forums
269: Your Account
270: Forums
271: Forums
272: Photo Albums
273: Forums
274: Forums
275: Forums
276: Your Account
277: Your Account
278: Your Account
279: Photo Albums
280: Forums
281: Forums
282: Forums
283: Forums
284: Forums
285: Forums
286: Home
287: Forums
288: Forums
289: Home
290: Your Account
291: Forums
292: Forums
293: Your Account
294: Photo Albums
295: Forums
296: Forums
297: News
298: Forums
299: Forums
300: Forums
301: Forums
302: Forums
303: Forums
304: Your Account
305: Forums
306: Your Account
307: Forums
308: Photo Albums
309: Forums
310: Photo Albums
311: Forums
312: Forums
313: Your Account
314: Forums
315: Forums
316: Forums
317: Forums
318: Your Account
319: Forums
320: Your Account
321: Forums
322: Photo Albums
323: Forums
324: Forums
325: Forums
326: Forums
327: Your Account
328: Your Account
329: Forums
330: Your Account
331: Photo Albums
332: Forums
333: Forums
334: Your Account
335: Forums
336: Your Account
337: Forums
338: Forums
339: Your Account
340: Photo Albums
341: Forums
342: Forums
343: Forums
344: Forums
345: Forums
346: Your Account
347: Home
348: Forums
349: Forums
350: Forums
351: Photo Albums
352: Forums
353: Forums
354: Forums
355: Forums
356: Forums
357: Forums
358: Forums
359: Forums
360: Forums
361: Forums
362: Your Account
363: Your Account
364: Forums
365: Forums
366: Photo Albums
367: Forums
368: Home
369: Contact
370: Forums
371: Photo Albums
372: Forums
373: Forums
374: Your Account
375: Forums
376: Forums
377: Forums
378: Forums
379: Forums
380: Forums
381: Forums
382: Photo Albums
383: Forums
384: Home
385: Your Account
386: Forums
387: Forums
388: Forums
389: Forums
390: Forums
391: Forums
392: Forums
393: Forums
394: Forums
395: Your Account
396: Photo Albums
397: Home
398: Forums
399: Forums
400: Photo Albums
401: Forums
402: Home
403: Forums
404: Photo Albums
405: Forums
406: Statistics
407: Forums
408: Forums
409: Forums
410: Forums
411: Forums
412: Forums
413: Forums
414: Forums
415: Forums
416: Forums
417: Forums
418: Forums
419: Forums
420: Home
421: Forums
422: Your Account
423: Forums
424: Forums
425: Forums
426: Photo Albums
427: Your Account
428: Forums
429: Home
430: Forums
431: Forums
432: Photo Albums
433: Forums
434: Your Account
435: Photo Albums
436: Your Account
437: Forums
438: Forums
439: Home
440: Forums
441: Your Account
442: Forums
443: Forums
444: Your Account
445: Forums
446: Forums
447: Forums
448: Forums
449: Your Account
450: Your Account
451: Forums
452: Your Account
453: Your Account
454: Photo Albums
455: Photo Albums
456: Forums
457: Your Account
458: Forums
459: Forums
460: Your Account
461: Your Account
462: Forums
463: Photo Albums
464: Photo Albums
465: Photo Albums
466: Forums
467: Forums
468: Forums
469: Your Account
470: Home
471: Forums
472: Forums
473: Forums
474: Home
475: Forums
476: Forums
  BOT:
01: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 308
 Pictures: 2451
  · Views: 820725
  · Votes: 1316
  · Comments: 86
 

drop tubes, how do they work?
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:02 am    Post subject: drop tubes, how do they work? Reply with quote

I would like to learn about drop tubes to get more powder in my .270 and 6.8 cases but I'm not finding much information on them. What is a good internal diameter? How long should it be? Metal or plastic? Thanks for any knowledge you can share.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2438
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: drop tubes, how do they work? Reply with quote

Is it not easier to go for a 7 mm RM, a 300 WM or even a .375 H&H. When you still want more powder in then the .50 BMG comes in my mind...

Just to say that some things I will never understand. For me instead of going to AI, I would go to the next caliber on the line up.

By the way, is there a .270 Win Ackley Improved? Just thinking...
Back to top
View user's profile
SingleShotLover
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 1005
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: drop tubes, how do they work? Reply with quote

In my experience (though I haven't used one all that much) I used a piece of rubber tubing that made a snug fit over my measure's spout and used that to dump into the funnel over each case. Mine was maybe 12" long. Too me the theory is that by dumping into the tube, the length allows the powder to separate and travel in a loose stream rather than being clumped up by the sudden drop from the measure directly into the constriction of the funnel and causing it to "bridge". The powder also tends to swirl slightly which helps to more evenly distribute it into the case.

As to the AI cartridges...if velocity is the goal, most only offer about as much gain over the parent cartridge as a couple of additional inches of barrel with the original cartridge.

One of the brutal truths related to cartridge design is that when increasing the capacity of any particular case, velocity increases at the rate of one quarter (25%) the percentage of increase in case capacity while pressure rises at a rate of 2% for each 1% of velocity increase. In other words an improvement to a case that increases capacity 10% only increases velocity by 2.5% over the parent design but increases pressure by 5%. Taking this further, a case that develops a velocity of 2,800 fps that is modified to gain 10% in capacity now turns in a velocity of 2,870 fps…only 70 fps gain. In most cartridges an additional 2” of barrel length would very nearly add that much. Put another way, 70 fps is not an inconceivable deviation within a string of shots using the same load! In terms of trajectory the gain would be far less than .25” difference (assuming the same bullet design and weight) in favor of the improved version regardless of the distance. All of this would be at the cost of the improvement plus the additional powder and recoil required for the increase. In addition, assuming a cartridge that generates 60,000 psi of pressure at that 2,800 fps, pressure would rise by 3,000 psi. This would certainly not be worth the effort. The hottest rounds at the highest velocities seldom gain more than 3” in realistic range trajectory over more sedate offerings. When shooting at most game animals, 3” is insignificant if range is known.

_________________
If you can't hit it with one, you probably can't with two either!

The biggest problem with a closed mind is that it never seems to come with a closed mouth.

SSL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2438
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: drop tubes, how do they work? Reply with quote

SSL, thanks for the theory behind this stuff. I only had feelings about it + an attitude of taking a round too big for the purpose and loading it down till it fits. That's the opposite. But I do understand SJ's requirements and they are not the same as mine. Some of us here call 100 yards a great distance, most of us here would call you insane when you try a 300 yards shot (unless you're trying for a fox or a crow). So when I see the distances you all are getting your game, I just feel myself very small.

Just another question: when you use such a tube on your powder dispenser, is the profit you get high enough that you do so instead of weighing each load separately?
Back to top
View user's profile
Suzanne
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 3323
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: drop tubes, how do they work? Reply with quote

Black powder guys use a copper drop tube about 3 feet long, diameter is equal to the case they're filling. Don't know if that relates to smokeless. There might be a few YouTube videos on it (not that they know much but some of those guys do).

Suz

_________________
May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams.
Back to top
View user's profile
SingleShotLover
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 1005
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: drop tubes, how do they work? Reply with quote

Actually, I never used it to try to get more powder into a case than any manual would recommend (since I still believe that if you want a "hotter" cartridge, buy one - don't try to make your .30/06 perform at .300 magnum pressure levels) but to make it easier to use "stick" or IMR type powders in small diameter cases, such as the various .224" calibers. Anymore, I tend to lean toward spherical powders and don't have such issues except in my .22/250, and then only because I have a considerable supply of IMR 4064 and it has given me the best accuracy in this particular cartridge/rifle combination. I also use it in my .30/06 and .280 Remington for the same reasons.

I seldom weigh each charge unless I am developing a particular load. My measures all are capable of throwing weights within .1 or .2 grains with specific powders and religious attention to throwing each charge the exact same way each time. I even have found that once set up properly, IMR 4064 can be measured very accurately using the inexpensive Lee Perfect Measures. Since they don't "cut" the powder, charges are remarkable consistent, and in the above mentioned cartridges, one or two tenths really doesn't matter...even in the accuracy department.

I do not trust any measure to throw accurately enough for the small-case cartridges that operate at high pressures (.17 Remington for example) since even tiny differences in weight can make a considerable difference in pressures. Those are all weighed, but since the powders I use for them are all spherical, just dumping from the weighing pan into the funnel works just fine.

As to the distance I am comfortable shooting...it depends on the quarry. Groundhogs and coyotes I will shoot at considerably longer distances than I would attempt on game animals. The longest shot I have ever taken on a whitetail deer was 187 yards (measured). Most of my deer have been at considerably less yardage, including a nice 8-point buck at a distance of 30 feet. I simply haven't seen anything in the line of a game animal that I needed to shoot extreme distances at, though I understand that regions, conditions and etc. can warrant such shots.

_________________
If you can't hit it with one, you probably can't with two either!

The biggest problem with a closed mind is that it never seems to come with a closed mouth.

SSL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2438
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: drop tubes, how do they work? Reply with quote

Suz, that's something different. In a frontloader I use such a tube just to get the powder down in the barrel without being mixed with all dirt of the previous shot. I don't think someone is using such a tube when he is loading cartridges for a breechloader.
Back to top
View user's profile
Ominivision1
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 20, 2010
Posts: 2984
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: drop tubes, how do they work? Reply with quote

I have tried the drop tube method a few years back, whats wrong with taking a case and gently taping the base after you load the powder to settle it?

_________________
Regards

Limitations are but boundaries created inside our minds.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Suzanne
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 3323
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: drop tubes, how do they work? Reply with quote

Here's a YouTube video of loading black powder cartridges and a drop tube. Here's another and both of these videos sort of explain the method and reasons.

Suz

_________________
May the moon keep you centered,
May the sun keep you dancing,
And the stars shed light on your dreams.
Back to top
View user's profile
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: drop tubes, how do they work? Reply with quote

I'm working with some loads that I'm developing on my own. I wold rather try a drop tube then try to compress the loads much. I'm still not getting pressure signs from them so wanted to be able to try a few more grains of powder. Thanks for the discussion. Keep it coming.

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
dhc4ever
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 26, 2011
Posts: 2944
Location: Ipswich, Queensland Australia

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:46 pm    Post subject: Re: drop tubes, how do they work? Reply with quote

Whats the calibre, powder amount and type and bullet weight?

_________________
Pete

Dont do anything you wont like explaining to the paramedics..............
Back to top
View user's profile
gelandangan
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 07, 2006
Posts: 6396
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:57 pm    Post subject: Re: drop tubes, how do they work? Reply with quote

All the above plus the COL.
COL would determine the final case capacity for a given projectile.

Slim, what are you trying to achieve?
Maybe I could help by trying to calculate its internal ballistic?

_________________
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

Do - Not try!


gelandangan.weebly.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
slimjim
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 8314
Location: Fort Worth TX

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Re: drop tubes, how do they work? Reply with quote

6.8mm, 37.0 grains of CFE223, 120gr Federal Fusion
.270 Win, 61.5 grains of MagPro, 150gr Accubond Long Range

_________________
"To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth." - Theodore Roosevelt

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Aloysius
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Posts: 2438
Location: B., Belgium

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: drop tubes, how do they work? Reply with quote

Suz, thanks for that. I've learned some new tricks. I never put a paper wad on top of my primer and I've never used a PE-wad on top of the powder. And the part where he puts something between the PE-wad and the bullet I didn't understand. Never too old to learn new tricks.
I'm using a waxed beercard between powder and conical and I do have a friend here loading the 45-120 with about 0,5 cm (1/4") of bullet fat, just to keep all dirt soft and to be able to shoot a match (30 shot) without cleaning.

All very interesting, but using black powder is not going to help SJ for his 6,8 mm or his .270 Smile (though some tricks might)

What might help: the Lyman Powder Measure has such a hammer in front to knock 3 times to get the powder settled. So when you put the powder in the case, hold the case in the outlet-funnel of the Lyman Powder Measure and knock a few times with that hammer... when you knock each time the same amount, it might just help the filling density inside your cartridge, as it does when filling the measure.
So you don't use the powder measure to measure but just to shake a well-known amount.

easier done than explained Smile
Back to top
View user's profile
Pumpkinslinger
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 5001
Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: drop tubes, how do they work? Reply with quote

I remember using a drop tube made from a broken aluminum arrow. I just can't remember what cartridge I did that with, or why...

_________________
Mike

"I ain't no better than anybody else, and there ain't nobody better than me!" Ma Kettle
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Reloading Ammunition
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by *Dizfunkshunal* :.