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Uh..don't quote me on this..
Discussions run-amok, innane banter it all goes here
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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: Uh..don't quote me on this.. Reply with quote

Suz, taking such ideas a little further, then all men and women recieving tax-money should live on bread and water? Or are they allowed to waste your taxmoney on alcohol, sigarets and other non-necessairy stuff?
What about teachers? Are they in your country not payed by the government? And when they buy something they don't need to stay alive, are they not wasting your tax-money? If so, one could cut all their salaries at least in halve... look what savings!

On the other hand: what would happen if they would make such expenses deductical from your income? Then everybody might ask an invoice, on an invoice are taxes... so at the end you are allowed to pay less taxes...
not OK I think, because then you have profit of people who make use of such survises and your Jon is not paying these kind of taxes... so everybody else would complain about the high taxes on prostitutes...
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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Uh..don't quote me on this.. Reply with quote

Do what you want on your own time. If you are paid from tax dollars and working in your field, it's not appropriate to party instead of work. If your job intails national security you should be held to higher standards than the ordinary citizen and you should conduct yourself as a represenitive of the nation if you are out of the country. I'm not talking about buying alcohol on your own time, I'm talking about partying while on the job.



sheesh
Suz

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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Uh..don't quote me on this.. Reply with quote

Please don't kill me too bad for saying this, but I expect it is difficult for people outside the USA who are not accustomed to our way of life and our beliefs to understand our anger at what is going on in our government.

Understand I am not denigrating you or your country (as we are all being lied to and manipulated by our governments), but I do not believe anyone who has not experienced the level of freedom that we in the USA have had in the past to understand our anger at what our government is taking away from us.

A couple of points:

Teachers should be paid a good salary for the nine months they work, but I do not want to hear how they have to take additional courses to keep ahead and keep their jobs. Guess what, I was in the competitive arena and I was consistently taking classes to keep my job and stay ahead of my competition (and I still work 12 months a year and got my education on my own time). If working my as- off 80 to 90 hours a week got me $100k, then you for your nine months should get an equal amount based on YOUR EFFECTIVENESS just as my effectiveness kept me in my job, stupid kids noooo money.

So, Teachers go cry to someone who cares, and I know it is not completely your fault that our students today are idiots, but our government who wants idiots. They are easier to manipulate.

And, if you are on welfare and living on the taxpayer dollar I think you should be able to buy a steak now and then (but for the life of me I cannot remember the last time I could afford a good steak, chicken, chicken, chicken, chicken I am so sick of chicken, and it doesn’t even taste like chicken), but if you are not taking care of those thirteen kids and are spending all your money on lottery tickets, or cocaine, then sr—w you NO MORE MONEY. Get a fricken job!!!!

Our kids, unfortunately, don’t know the difference because the government is educating them and only teaching them what they want them to know, so it’s up to us, I was gonna say old timers, but that might offend some folks, so I’ll just say folks who have been around long enough to notice the difference to tell our kids about it, and tell them the TRUTH.

I am not looking for any praise or a pat on the back from you turkeys, but I use my personal experience to demonstrate what can happen in this great country if a person works hard and won’t let the elite stand in his way. Upon leaving college in 1968 I entered the Navy and served about two years, actually 9 months of that was in a Naval Hospital in Japan, when the Navy determined that they had no further use for my body. I went home and worked as a soderer, and found a wife (which I am still married to, yes I know unbelievably the same woman 42 fr---en years, and she still ain’t trained properly) and because I now had a responsibility I figured I better get my as- in gear and do something about it. So, going to school weekends and evenings for ten or twelve years I finally got a PHD in International Business and then started making some money—No never a million a year and nothing close to that—I was too much an ass—le and told the truth to often to make that kind of money.

I guess my point here is that if I can go from making minimum wage to a pretty good salary because I was willing to put in the effort, then anyone in this country can do the same, but if you expect to be taken care of you will always be wishing for more instead of having it.

But, maybe I’m wrong after all, as I said I am an ass—le, ask anybody they'll tell you.

I'm with you Suz.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Uh..don't quote me on this.. Reply with quote

Purple?

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Uh..don't quote me on this.. Reply with quote

Maybe we should all listen to what Ted Nugent has to say. Just to make sure we have our heads on straight, it has taken from January 1 until now for Americans to earn enough money to pay this year’s federal, state, and local tax bill — 29.2% of all our income. In other words, for the first 111 days of the year, everything you earned went straight to Uncle Sam. Compare that to back in 1900, when Americans paid only 5.9% of their income in taxes and Tax Freedom Day came on January 22. Because of higher federal income and corporate tax collections, Tax Freedom Day came four days later this year than last. And the bad news is that unless Washington takes action, it will take working Americans 11 more days to meet next year’s tax burden.

Standing in
for
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radar
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Uh..don't quote me on this.. Reply with quote

Suz,

I'm not bagging you at all.
Hell I can't complain...from mere Constable 39K per year 20 years ago to University papers and internal Police exams to where I am now, well in excess of 100K and I only work 150 days a year....
How does that work you ask?
I work a 10 day cyclic roster 6 on duty 4 off duty so already I'm 40% of my year on days off, add statutory public holidays where i get an extra day off + my annual leave loading of 45 days a year plus Time off I'm Leiu I'm only working 150 days a year.....Not Bad I think.
Yes your Govt is tightening its belt but I agree probably in all the wrong areas but we are all going through the same wringer. Democracy I think not...theres an old saying - life is like a shit sandwich, the more bread you have the less shit you eat. Thats what Politicians do best, get lots of bread and don't care how everyone else's bread is sliced.

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Aloysius
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:07 am    Post subject: Re: Uh..don't quote me on this.. Reply with quote

Suz, and you're complaining? We are used to work till he end of August for our governmentS (and this was before the crisis, at this moment I don't know!). And when you have some savings when you die, your children have to pay taxes again on everything you yourself already payed taxes on...
and does it help?
The only result is more people on top who require even more taxes...

In my opinion there are only 2 ways to break this chain: or another big war (WO III or has this already started?) OR all working people take an (unpayed) holiday for about 1 year, maybe 2, so that the government can earn it's own income instead of eating other workers salaries...

See how deep a purper bullet hole can lead you?
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:42 am    Post subject: Re: Uh..don't quote me on this.. Reply with quote

Suzanne wrote:
Do what you want on your own time. If you are paid from tax dollars and working in your field, it's not appropriate to party instead of work. If your job intails national security you should be held to higher standards than the ordinary citizen and you should conduct yourself as a represenitive of the nation if you are out of the country. I'm not talking about buying alcohol on your own time, I'm talking about partying while on the job.



sheesh
Suz
gee wizz Suz that takes in all the teachers ,police, doctors n nurses in state hospitals and the rest of there staff right down to the cleaning lady.
the entire armed forces and I guess you would have to include all the subcontractors aswell as they are paid by taxpayer moneys, road workers doing the job of maintaining roads for you to drive on, oh yeah the guy in the petrol station,7-11,supermarket,liqour store,or prostitute who gets their income off any of the above . what Im pertaining to is your taxpayers dollar goes a long way, yes a "man in black" is supposed to be better than the rest of us mere mortals, but hells bells batman with leadership like your last few POTUSs and examples of what is deemed to be appropriate behaviour, after all you are suposed to lead from the front and set an example for the lesser beings.
If these goons have been seen to do wrong Im sure they will be dealt with following the procedures layed down in writing.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Uh..don't quote me on this.. Reply with quote

Translation problems I guess...Elvis do you think it's appropriate to party during working hours? cause that's what I'm talkin about, and at tax payers expense. It sounds to me like you and Aloyosis think it's ok to drink and party while on the job. Please explain that one. +

Aloyosip yes we pay taxes on moneys our relatives leave us when they die, we pay taxes on money we've payed taxes on over and over again. Me? complain?


Suz

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Uh..don't quote me on this.. Reply with quote

I thought I could get some interesting dialog out of this and all I get from you guys is some twisted interpretations of what's bein said on these news reports.

So anyway hows about those photos of killed Afghan soldiers gettin pissed on and shown off as prizes? You know the ones that the press was told not to disclose to the public....

The soldier who provided The Times with a series of 18 photos of soldiers posing with corpses did so on condition of anonymity. He served in Afghanistan with the 82nd Airborne's 4th Brigade Combat Team from Ft. Bragg, N.C. He said the photos point to a breakdown in leadership and discipline that he believed compromised the safety of the troops.
He expressed the hope that publication would help ensure that alleged security shortcomings at two U.S. bases in Afghanistan in 2010 were not repeated. The brigade, under new command but with some of the same paratroopers who served in 2010, began another tour in Afghanistan in February.

U.S. military officials asked The Times not to publish any of the pictures.

Times Editor Davan Maharaj said, "After careful consideration, we decided that publishing a small but representative selection of the photos would fulfill our obligation to readers to report vigorously and impartially on all aspects of the American mission in Afghanistan, including the allegation that the images reflect a breakdown in unit discipline that was endangering U.S. troops."


Somehow the Times Editor didn't seem to even imagine what the outcome of such a decision would be. And somehow there has been no investigation or allegation against the Times, only the soldier who submitted the photos to them.

Check this out;
The Pentagon declined a Times request that Army officials contact all active-duty soldiers in the photos to provide an opportunity to comment. The Times sent requests for comment by email and Facebook to seven soldiers in the photos. One, now serving in Afghanistan, declined to comment. The others did not respond.

HUH??? Who does the Times work for?

The photos have emerged at a particularly sensitive moment for U.S.-Afghan relations. In January, a video appeared on the Internet showing four U.S. Marines urinating on Afghan corpses. In February, the inadvertent burning of copies of the Koran at a U.S. base triggered riots that left 30 dead and led to the deaths of six Americans. In March, a U.S. Army sergeant went on a nighttime shooting rampage in two Afghan villages, killing 17. OOOOOOOOPPPSSSS!?
The Army would "take appropriate action" against those involved. I hope the Times is included in that!!


Spioowie
Suz

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Uh..don't quote me on this.. Reply with quote

now arent these troops also paid by your tax dollar and were they not on duty at the time and representing your country?
Have you ever been on a golf course Suz???
a hell of alot of business gets done there and in the 19th hole thats partying while at work.
what was the person the "minders" were "minding" doing during this partying???? joining in maybe?? who will ever know the press just feeds the public what ever will sell papers.
yes terrible things do happen in war time always has and always will. the difference is now the media gets hold of it and splashes it out there for all to see.
again I am sure the people involved will be dealt with in the manner written down and deemed to be correct procedure.
lynch mobs are frowned upon now no matter how much the papers would like to bring them back.

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radar
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Uh..don't quote me on this.. Reply with quote

Suz,

I just finished reading "War" by Sebastian Junger. Although not entirely relevant it points out why we war, and the moral and societal issues created and made by such war. He spent a large amount of time in The Korengal Valley in Afghanistan as an embedded Journalist with a Platoon of Airborne Soldiers. It makes for serious reading and gives an understanding of the sacrifices made, what stress does to people and how we cope in times of stress.
I know it doesn't equal the Secret Service debacle but guys in these roles do need to de-stress....in my job 20 years ago de-stress meant to get absolutely blitzed..... some of us doing things we locked people up for the previous shift but that was regarded as being part of the job. I'm sure any military or LEO could tell plenty of stories which eventually become legends which cover very much the same ground. Whistle blowing only brings more problems...its a devil if you do but theres greater evil if you don't......trust me I've been there.
Radar

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Uh..don't quote me on this.. Reply with quote

Please Elvis....go to your boss and tell your boss that you just bought a quart of booze and a hooker to get you through your day at work.

Go out to the newspaper and have a photographer hired to take photos of you and the hooker drinking and what ever else, but that you don't want the photos published because it will no doubt cause your family and friends to kill themselves over it.

From what I'm getting from you, this would be perfectly legitimate and your boss would be just fine with it. Your family would just take it as normal work/play and even though some members did kill themselves, it's just deemed as a boys will be boys thing. Even though the newspaper didn't do what you told them about the photos, and it got someone killed, the newspaper was just doin what it could to sell papers. No one's to blame. Please don't invite me to dinner.

If you have a problem with these articles, you should, that's why I'm posting them. If you have questions about more details, I don't have the answers, I'm just printing what I see. I would suspect people could get angry at their government and want to change the status-quo, change the laws, change the authorities in rule. Apparently all is well with some. I see it as a degradation of our morals, our American ideals, our justice system, our representation to other countries and a degradation of our future, if we don't do something.

It's weird to me that some posters on here are justifying the absurdities and treating me as if I invented them and need to be swayed. Totally weird...I do appreciate the entertainment and I just thought there would be more of a thought provoking response rather than hard edged ridicule of my self. An education in what our government is doing on our tax payers' time as we are slumping into the abyss and nearing an election is all I had in mind. The frustrations of living in the Twilight Zone for real, under the current administration, has had me wanting to live somewhere else. The thing is....there aint no somewhere else. This is what we got. Cowboys and Indians all over again. They take over and there's nothing you can do. They out number you so vastly you can't even imagine. It's as if the real world is gone, nothing you remember it to be is here anymore and it never will be.

I feel supremely lucky to have a job and it's fading into the abyss also. A once proud profession to be in has turned into a fairy-tale. No one has the money to afford the luxury. Oh sorry.....unless you work for the government. HHHhhhmmmmm you know they need more money too, how do they get by on $100,000 a year anyway? My last paycheck for two weeks work included 46hrs of work. This week I worked 25 hrs, looks like the government is taking it's fair share, looks like the government is the best employer on the planet! What happens when there are more government workers than non-government workers? Who pays the taxes to pay their salary? Less and less people, pay the majority of the taxes and they get higher and higher, pretty soon the only employer is the government because no one can afford the taxes to run a business.

tired of
IT
Suz

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:14 am    Post subject: Re: Uh..don't quote me on this.. Reply with quote

ok Suz sorry if I have given offence. I was trying to point out that maybe the press had blown things out of proportion. If the bosses of the people concerned havent taken the appropriate action then thier bosses will have to do so.I too have done crazy things for stress relief after a crap week at work I believe its called hunting. go out in the rain or snow at times and cut tracks to get to hunting areas etc etc my boozy days are over a drink or 5 sure but not binge drinking and no I have never paid for the other and never will so Im not trying to justify this corse of action just saying it MAY not be as bad as its been made out.I in no way intended any ridicule of you .

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Eremius
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: Uh..don't quote me on this.. Reply with quote

I REALLY am not meaning this as an attack against anybody, even though it may be able to be interpreted as such. Please understand I am debating the post, not the poster.

Elvis wrote:
Im not trying to justify this corse of action just saying it MAY not be as bad as its been made out.

The tone of the recent posts in this thread have been to try to justify actions, as Suz rightfully pointed out. They (the posts) are making excuses for this behavior "it is *such* a high stress job, they just need to blow off some steam" and trying to minimize the actions by blaming the messenger. The agents are to blame for what they did.

radar wrote:
some of us doing things we locked people up for the previous shift but that was regarded as being part of the job

This is hypocrisy of the highest order. wtf
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