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I need a little advice
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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MRFixIT
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: I need a little advice Reply with quote

Ive been spending a couple of days a week at the range this winter. I seem to have a problem not being able to keep the same point of aim, at least thats what I thinks going on. I'm shooting 5 shot groups but they look more like 2 groups.




I'm assuming it's me and not the gun ( model 12 lrpv in 223)

I should also add wind was gusty to 10km and I was shooting 100meters. 75 gr BTHP Hornady
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TRBLSHTR
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

Shocked Wow-that savage should be a tack driver.Check for correct torque on your action screws,and maybe you are having a scope malfunction.I had an old bushnell that would shake the occular lens loose in the housing and create similar groupsX2! Surprised

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

I'll take a wild guess. You are mixing brass from two different manufacturers. Make sure you are using all the same brass and fire again.

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

are the 2 groups shot as 2 groups or do they just end up thataways? eg are the first 2 in one group and the other 3 shot next?? if so shoot a 10 shot group and see what happens your rifle may shoot a dirty barrel to a different poi to clean barrel. or warm vs cold.

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MRFixIT
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
I'll take a wild guess. You are mixing brass from two different manufacturers. Make sure you are using all the same brass and fire again.

slimjim i'm using lapua brass on it's third firing. I wish it was something that easy


Elvis wrote:
are the 2 groups shot as 2 groups or do they just end up thataways? eg are the first 2 in one group and the other 3 shot next?? if so shoot a 10 shot group and see what happens your rifle may shoot a dirty barrel to a different poi to clean barrel. or warm vs cold.

Elvis I number the shots. I shot them as 2 - 5 shot group. Gun was warm I put 50 rounds through it temp was -5 C. I shoot 5 shots wait 5 minutes or so and shoot 5 more. Gun does not seem to need a fouling shot

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MRFixIT
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

TRBLSHTR wrote:
8-O Wow-that savage should be a tack driver.Check for correct torque on your action screws,and maybe you are having a scope malfunction.I had an old bushnell that would shake the occular lens loose in the housing and create similar groupsX2! Surprised

TRB I wish it was my axis. That shoots .5 all day long. This is my Model 12 LRPV. I thought it might be my scope so I locked tighted all the screws night be fore last. Just did a little reading thx TRB now I need go get inch pound gauge Very Happy
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Vince
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

I'm tending towards something you may be doing mate because even though you appear to have two different groups in each group firing, the numbered shots are saying otherwise. Looking at the distance between each individual shot shows that, with the exception of shot 2 to shot 3, they are all a similar distance apart. It's odd though that 2 - 3 are almost identical distance apart in each group (might be the ideal barrel temp for that load mate).

If none of the suggestions from the others fixes the problem, give some thought to getting someone else to fire a couple of groups for you, with your reloads, and maybe also theirs, from your rifle to see how they group. If nothing else it will eliminate the one nut that is nearly always loose on a rifle...the nut behind the butt.

Cheers, Vince

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:08 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

There are a number of things that can cause this !!!

If it's wind as you suggest, you shouldn't be seeing any vertical. How do other groups look ?
Are you using any kind of wind flags to aid in your shooting....you should be if you want to consistently shoot .5 and smaller.

Scopes, barrels, bedding and the load itself can all cause what your describing.
How your gun is tracking on your rest or the rest itself can also be the fault.

It can be a long tedious job to figure it out but it can be done.
I suggest trying simple things first. Try a different rest or how it's configured, maybe a softer bag with less sand.
Try some factory ammo and see what happens or try a completely different type of re-load.
If none of that works try a different scope.
Sooner or later you'll figure it out

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Elvis
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:37 am    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

yip a box of factory ammo to try and see what it does is not a bad idea you will get some new brass too.

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pete4d
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

MRFixIT wrote:
TRBLSHTR wrote:
8-O Wow-that savage should be a tack driver.Check for correct torque on your action screws,and maybe you are having a scope malfunction.I had an old bushnell that would shake the occular lens loose in the housing and create similar groupsX2! Surprised

TRB I wish it was my axis. That shoots .5 all day long. This is my Model 12 LRPV. I thought it might be my scope so I locked tighted all the screws night be fore last. Just did a little reading thx TRB now I need go get inch pound gauge Very Happy

Had similar issue with one of my gun, I'd read an article about over tightening the screws of the scope rings, I torqued the screws to 20 lbs. as you would a cylinder head of a motor, it helped tighten my group.

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Grumulkin
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote



Does this look familiar? This particular rifle shoots the first 3 shots out of a cold barrel very well. After 3 shots the group position moves. Don't assume it you and not the gun.



Here is a group shot with the same gun out of a cold clean barrel. In addition to there being 2 different headstamps on the brass, on one of the bullets the pretty white plastic tip had broken off leaving only the base in the bullet and in another bullet, the white plastic tip had come out altogether. It just shows what a difference mixing brass may not make.
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ElyBoy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

I'll toss this thought out to some of the guys who know more than me.

I wonder if it has to do with the barrel heating up after a couple of shots.



Eric

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MRFixIT
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

Grumulkin wrote:


Does this look familiar? This particular rifle shoots the first 3 shots out of a cold barrel very well. After 3 shots the group position moves. Don't assume it you and not the gun.



Here is a group shot with the same gun out of a cold clean barrel. In addition to there being 2 different headstamps on the brass, on one of the bullets the pretty white plastic tip had broken off leaving only the base in the bullet and in another bullet, the white plastic tip had come out altogether. It just shows what a difference mixing brass may not make.


I've tried fouling shot. Hot barrel, warm barrel, cold barrel. Clean or dirty barrel guns shoots the same. I'm going to the range on Sunday and hoping someone else is there to try a few shoots and see if it acts the same for them
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:54 am    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

try loading it single shot. I cant see how but maybe its bullets in the mag that is the difference???

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MRFixIT
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: I need a little advice Reply with quote

Rifle is single shot Elvis

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