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12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores--
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
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rsm1961
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Joined: Aug 14, 2011
Posts: 3
Location: Buckeye Az

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:00 am    Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores-- Reply with quote

Those are some interesting large caliber rifles. I picked up a .338 Lapua not too long ago but my favorite is my AR15 in .50 Beowulf. It's a good 300yd gun for knocking down just about anything. My bullet of choice is a 400gr soft point. Does a lot of damage.
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hubel585
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Joined: Nov 27, 2011
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores-- Reply with quote

Here is picture of a hard plastic molded shotgun cases, holding
a slug, without crimping, a company is experimenting with.
These with light brass slugs supposed to do over 2000 fps.




Here is video by Corlanes Sporting, Dawson Creek, BC, CAN.
Known as Rocky Mtn Rifle. Video is on Youtube of testing our
585 HE in a barreled action, they are building for a guy. They are
shooting it into their big bullet trap with test load..

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vzQjRGfT1A



Picture of Rossi singleshot with 585 barrel mono-blocked into it,
chambered for our 585 BB 2.17" case, for testing in a light rifle
with just pistol grip to simulate the case in pistols. Others going to
put case in leverguns, autoloaders. We got lots of cases. Ed

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hubel585
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Joined: Nov 27, 2011
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores-- Reply with quote

Here is picture of a great old time 8bore double.
I like those old outside hammer, big bore guns.



The style of most break actions singles aren't the greatest, that we
we used for 12ga FH, 10ga FH, other caliber barrels we mono-blocked
in them like .585" bore for 585HE and 24ga FH.. One that is close
that we have, is the Magtech.

Well the guys have found one that is super strong lockup and looks
real nice. And has the good quality look. It comes 12ga light shot barrel,
soon be monoblocked to rifled 24ga FH, the little brother of the 585HE.

We told company if they did them with NEF style, rifled, heavy slug barrel,
for shotgun caliber only hunters, they couldn't make them fast enough.




Here is picture of 585HE, In an Enfield that Bret and Darrel in Minn
set up with great camo finish, with nice brake job. It is in a Hogue, recoil
reducing, rubber coated, Compstock.Great job they did.. Ed

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hubel585
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Joined: Nov 27, 2011
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:09 am    Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores-- Reply with quote

We will have arrived when we have this big bore in our back yard,
Kind of a neat suppressor,




Here is folder shotgun, the guys set up as 24ga FH.
Shoots nice, looks nice, it a more expensive break action,
compared to many others.




Here is another view of what we feel is a nearly perfect
break action. Guy is making a strong 24ga FH with it.




Here is picture of a 585HE MRC PH a guy set up..

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hubel585
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Joined: Nov 27, 2011
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores-- Reply with quote

Here is a Midland break action a guy is doing in 24ga FH.



Here is old catalog picture of different stuff used in old days
for shotgun loads. Some would be hairy in brass cases



Here is picture of a MN a guy is doing 585HE in..
It is singleshot. Redid bolt handle, mounted it on the bolt
further back, so the port could be lengthened for our long case.
Also puts handle back where it is easier to grab.
Needs, more shaping, polishing, blueing, scope rail added.

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hubel585
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Joined: Nov 27, 2011
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:41 am    Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores-- Reply with quote

There are guys on Castboolits forum experimenting with
locking on plastic bases securely on slugs.
Making their own front heavy ones for smoothbores.

Here is picture of our 585BB case next to long 585HE.




Here is another view of the great camo job on the
585HE Enfield, a top view. Ed

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hubel585
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Joined: Nov 27, 2011
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:57 am    Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores-- Reply with quote

Here is a helix driver seal we made by cutting base from helix driver

wadcup, good for fullbore roundballs that are too big to go in cup.

Best one to cut off is shortest `12ga one BPI has.






Here is picture of a 585HE made on a Stiller bolt action for guy in Canada.

It was made for the poster Spooksar on Africa Hunting and Accuratereloading,

by Corlanes/Rocky Mountain rifles, in Dawson Creek BC Canada, with a

Stiller action, Timney trigger. the stock is a blue/grey laminate. He imported

the barrel, cases, dies, etc.. from us, through Prophet River in Lloydminster AB.






That action similar to Lawton we had and neighbor got, that won the King Of The

2 Mile shoot at Whittington, with the 375 Lethal cartridge the neighbor made,

from our 585 brass. Made it full length case,.. It is big one on the right.

He made an 18 lb gun with McMillan target stock, a huge scope, tripod..

Nice thing is we don't need BMG action.ED


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hubel585
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Posts: 158

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:09 am    Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores-- Reply with quote

Fellow big bore nut, Nathan Vale in AUS, has worked with

Bertram and got the run of full length 12ga From Hell cases done.

Drawn 12ga long cases as strong as BMG brass with unbreakable rims.

Any wanting to get some, contact Bertram at the email -----

b.bertram1 @ bigpond.com ......





Some more on wildcat 375 Lethal Cartridge and Mitchell Fitzpatrick's win.......

.375 Lethal Precision Arms LLC rifle shooting prototype solid 400gr Berger bullets.

Mitchell built this rifle himself using a McMillan A5 Super Mag stock, Rock Creek barrel,

Nightforce ATACR MOA scope, Phoenix Precision Bipod, and a Lethal Precision Arms

muzzle brake. Lawton Action. Lethal Precision his own gunsmith shop, will make

these target rifles for anyone into target shooting and long range hunting..


Remarkably, Mitchell nailed first- and second- shot hits at the 2477-yard target,

a full 1.4 miles away. It is windy out there, makes shooting hard with a time limit.

The prototype 400 grain Berger Bullets solid performed great, (G7 BC of 0.56 at 3000 fps).






Here is 585 HE in an Enfield, in a Choate Heavy Varmint Stock. These are super strong.

The butts of these can easily be weighted. Couple guys doing them....... Ed


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hubel585
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Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores-- Reply with quote

Here is a picture of the 12ga FH brass case that Nathan

Vale had Bertrams make. Next to short plastic case.




Here is a picture of our 585BB headstamp. Perfect lettering

for our case as it came from production line,.




I like Hogue stocks, but they aren't made for singleshots.

We use singleshots for our 12ga FH and 585HE.

Here is picture of a NEF we set up for 24ga FH and we adapted

a Hogue 1300 Winchester Hogue to it. Looks a lot better, and

handles recoil easier than factory, Butt hollow, easy to add weight,





Here is picture of 585 case in the Lawton bolt, and the wildcat

375s and others made from our cases, work in bolt also. Ed


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hubel585
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Joined: Nov 27, 2011
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores-- Reply with quote

Our friend Brian from the far north went to Africa with his 24ga FH he did in
a NEF break action and got 3 nice buffs with it. Good job.


Our 585HE, 700HE and the great 12ga FH are now in the new COTW book
published in Oct, now out for sale,




We now have our target 375 HE cartridge, made by necking down our 585 HE.
The others couldn't make enough 375s, so we started our own. It has different
shoulder taper, length, neck length, improved over the others...Got a bunch
guys doing it, most into the 2 mile shooting venues, We're making cases,
testing, reamer prints at reamer guys, we are getting guys going. The 2 mile
shoot last year really got the interest booming for 375 necked from our case,

Here's how, size and seat 375 HE, one simple die, a 1" die, no huge dies needed
A die we can make with resize reamer from reamer guy, a regular die body,then
pass on to the next guy, one reamer can make whole bunch of dies for folks.

I do primer work separate, not in the press. SO First with lock ring set, I size cases.

When coming back out of dies with case, we notice the case still well centered,
held straight, when it is down as far as the length of the 375 HE neck... IE
the sides and shoulder corner still supported tight.

So we put washer or another lock ring on, same thickness as neck length,
below original lock ring, screw down tight tight in press,

Dies had a 5/8 x 24 thread in top, had powder fill bushing and other stuff same thread,
reamed out from bottom to set bullet height, with ram, case,and bullet up,

After priming, loading in the powder charge, we carefully start(boat tail makes it easy)
bullet in case by hand, slide up in die, into holder, raise ram to to top, bullet seated
perfect. Die can have different thread in top as long as big enough to hold seating
bushing of some kind , that can be made from many items.

These target bullets held in by strong neck tension, no crimping needed, and notice
bullet point will get no marks or dents, fast, easy, no 380-500 buck special dies.
Bushing centering bullet on ogive is very accurate.

OVER 900 375HE cases piled behind presses getting done. About 600 on another
bench nearly ready. Small batches in shelves.And we will do more.

All 375 info, prints, specs, pictures, load data, etc, is public domain, worldwide,
for any target, hunting, etc, use..Ed


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hubel585
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Joined: Nov 27, 2011
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:16 am    Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores-- Reply with quote

Here is picture of one of 3 buffs our guy from Canada got in

Africa with our 24ga FH he did on a NEF, in 2nd picture








Here is the neck die setup, with insert stems/plugs for the top that

are set in .020" steps to make our 375 HEs shown behind

from our 585HE cases. 900 cases behind and 600 on

another bench, mostly done, and 600 started elsewhere,

We also made a hydraulic form die, 375 HE test gun, starting with

lighter bullets, for example got 340 gr to 3700,

Will test up to 400gr We will find top speeds and powders needed

to get that, and have info where to get powders. Reamer prints are

at reamer guys, all prints and info is public domain... Ed

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hubel585
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Joined: Nov 27, 2011
Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores-- Reply with quote

Picture of fellows at Vestals Gunsmithing test firing 585 HE

they built for a guy. They got 750 gr to almost 2800 from

ultra short barrel, not a full load . A regular barrel would be

over 2900, 14000 ft lbs with full load..





Picture of our 375 HE cases, with little 378 WEA on left.

Middle case is with 330 gr, right case is 400gr bullet.




Here is picture of out 375HE testgun, in heavy t-hole stock.

So far 340 gr to 3700 and 360gr 3600.




Next 416 HE target case, these run through the hydro-die,

test gun done,will complete testing soon, to confirm specs.

When specs set, info will be sent to reamer guys

Soon will have 408 HE with specs set up also, for guys,

Smaller case 416s and 408s can be reamed out for

our bigger case .Ed

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hubel585
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Posts: 158

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores-- Reply with quote

Here is picture of a brake on 12ga FH with real hot loaded
hollowbase lead slug, brake needed more clearance
for the expanding slug.




Here is the before and after of 375 HE cases,
2 on left necked, 2 on right formed in hydro die after necking..



Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left we are experimenting
with, going to see if we can make the ultimate 416 ELR case.
Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, a long one pictured.
Holds over 280 gr ball powder under bullet. In the picture,
1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 HE, 4th 378 WEA.

416 HSM will get 400gr to 4100 plus without needing BMG action,
470 gr 3800 plus , it may be the ultimate target, singleshot 416..
Case will work in fat bolt actions, with heavy enough barrel
to have good, milder, barrel harmonics and srtill be under 50 lbs.
A lot of the 2 mile type shoots are adopting 50lb limit.



Here is picture of the 416 HSM fireformed once,
next to bmg case we make it from and as we
improve wildcatting process next few weeks
some specs may make small changes, now from
base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed..





Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HE
He can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.
We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, ,
Going to do lot more cases for these 2 sizes also,
Questions, PM or email. ph 989-644-5228..

Here are final specs for 416 HE.
Length 3.32", belt diameter ,655", base dia .635" ,
length base to to shoulder 2.860" , 30 deg shoulder.Ed
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hubel585
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Posts: 158

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores-- Reply with quote

Guys asking about strong economical bolt gun to use for 28ga and
410 ga and 32ga with brass cases and higher pressures than plastic cases.
They can use a MN bolt action, here is pic of one with
our 585 case in the action.Guys can get Magtech brass cases or have
RMC make them....Guys can make 32ga case from 500 NE,
410s from 9.3 x 74 brass, etc..



Here is picture of our 416 HSM case sectioned next to original
BMG case on the right sectioned, to show that we still have
enough thickness in the sides to handle high pressure,
in a case with 310 gr capacity..We are getting the wildcatting
work set up so we can do at least hundred a month.
We have lots of 585s, 375HEs, 416 HEs, 408 HEs.....
And working toward getting 416 HSMs in big numbers.



Here's comparison of 416 target cases, 1st 416 HE, have whole bunch.
Second is model of what I'd have made on medium machine, if I could,
the 416 HE Long. It has capacity of 230gr..
Third is our 416 HSM which we are working on making by wildcatting bmg
cases, And if had run long cases, make longer 375 HE necking down 416 ..




Bryan Litz just recently shot 3 shot group at 2 miles using Paul
Phillips heavy barreled, target rifle built by Lethal Precision in
375 Lethal Mag(585HE necked down, very similiar to 375HE )...
It grouped 17.5 inches tall by 22 inches wide.

Applied Ballistics shooter Mitch Fitzpatrick just hit 3 of 5 at 3520 yards,
weekend 10-13th at Valdina Ranch , west of San Antonio.
Also used the 375 LM case similar to our 375 HE
Great shooting at the 2017 World's Longest Shot Challenge. Ed
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Elvis
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Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 7511
Location: south island New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:30 am    Post subject: Re: 12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Other Big Bores-- Reply with quote

that midland break open looks to me to be a russian Bakail....
neat shot of the short barrel flame thrower.....much unburnt powder in that one methinks.
absolutely LOVE the great gaping hole in the shoulder of that buffalo
keep up the good work.

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