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Project Gunrunner !!!
Discussions run-amok, innane banter it all goes here
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lesterg3
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: Project Gunrunner !!! Reply with quote

Not to put too fine a point on this as I do not want to be considered radical, however I have heard some folks think that the whole administration is full of liars and scoundrels who have an agenda contrary to most Constitutional God loving Americans hold true--just something I heard.

Some say that these folks hate the USA and what it stands for. What it has done in the past to grow and become the nation it has, but fail to see what other countries have done in the past and what they are doing today to reach the same ends. Some folks I've heard wonder why it is always what America has done wrong and not what they or others have done wrong. I wonder could it be because it is easier to tear down what is great than to become great? Some folks say it is more important to be politically correct than to tell the real truth.

Some folks I have heard go even further and say that the entire Congress is only interested in doing what is necessary to get reelected and that media manipulation and flipping positions is what is required to run a country in this day and age. I have heard another interesting idea too, why do so many come out to try and be elected President as is the case with the current GOP pack of self elected nominees--it has to be obvious to them who the real contenders are--so what is it money? media attention? Ego?. And I've heard the front-runner is a sheep in wolves clothing, not sure who that might be.

And, I hear that while this is all a sad state of affairs, the saddest part of this is that the majority of Americans believe the minutiae that comes out of Washington and the media. One might think that Americans have had it too good for too long to realize what is really going on or on the other hand some folks contend that the government has impeded education so much that the most important thing to most Americans ins the release of the new iPod. One has to ask are Americans really that stupid?

Some folks I have heard from say this goes much deeper that the ATF or the AG and that there may be manipulation from outside Un-American Soros, sorry I meant sources.

I am unsure of what is really going on, but two things I am sure of is that man will never create an uncorrupt government, and if they take our guns, either through lires or manipulation, that the struggle for a government close to perfection is over. I put my faith in God and Jesus Christ, and will hold my guns to the death, some folks I hear say screw the AG, and all his buddies, and that the only problem with president Obama is that he is.

Sorry that was so long, just some things I heard.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Project Gunrunner !!! Reply with quote

Les, sounds like you're hearing the same sorts of things I'm hearing. One question I always ask those that are pro gun control is, "In the history of the human race, can you name just one group of people who kept their freedom when they were unable to defend it?" By the way, IMO, you are NOT free if you are prohibited from being armed for your own defense.

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Suzanne
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: Project Gunrunner !!! Reply with quote

Ya think?
Hope you don't mind as I read that I had to put a southern accent to it. No Lesterg Americans are not that stupid. The media and the administration would like to think we are and their tactics are tryin to make it so. I feel like I live in a communist country when I listen to national news and public funded broadcasting. They've got an agenda in-sync with the admin.s' and there's no getting around it. Alternative news from foreign countries seems to have a better idea of what's goin on than we're privy to. Personally I think free speech is becoming a dead horse, a few, very few talk radio programs have hit the barrier too.

Well said Lesterg3!!

Suz

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Gunrunner !!! Reply with quote

Lester wrote:
...--so what is it money? media attention? Ego?.

I can sum it up in two words Lester...MONEY and POWER...in either order mate.

Cheers, Vince

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Project Gunrunner !!! Reply with quote

Talk about Double-Standard. Shocked A New Mexico family was arrested back in Aug 2011 for allegedly selling guns to the mexican cartels. They are still in jail and now have been refused any representation from a Lawyer!!. wtf

Family Refused Representation

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slimjim
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Gunrunner !!! Reply with quote

This entire story amazes me! Has anyone even been fired yet?

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44marty
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Gunrunner !!! Reply with quote

Holder should be in jail & Obama impeached, at least. The whole anti-gun group of planners involved ( hear me, Ms Clinton?) in this should also be prosecuted.
As I understand it (although this info is harder to come by) most of the patriotic whistle-blowers who alerted the press/public of this abomination have been demoted at best. Even after repeatedly perjuring himself before congress, Holder is still Atty Gen.
I don't understand exactly why more hasn't been done yet in the way of holding these fools accountable. I suspect that two things are being done behind the scene. 1)Searching for more evidence directly linking the highest possible outlaws to this debacle before appointing a special prosecutor and beginning impeachment proceedings. 2)Waiting to launch a full offensive until closer to election time, 2012

Of course, if justice were really an issue where entrenched politicians are concerned, Ted Kennedy would never have survived Chappaquiddick.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Gunrunner !!! Reply with quote

slimjim wrote:
This entire story amazes me! Has anyone even been fired yet?

Yea right !!! They've been promoted !!!

www.myfoxny.com/dpps/n...c_14586928

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English Mike
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Gunrunner !!! Reply with quote

Ominivision1 wrote:
Talk about Double-Standard. Shocked A New Mexico family was arrested back in Aug 2011 for allegedly selling guns to the mexican cartels. They are still in jail and now have been refused any representation from a Lawyer!!. wtf

Family Refused Representation

They have been refused collective representation by one lawyer. The reasons given for this appear sound & there is nothing stopping them from employing other lawyers.
I wonder how many of the guns they are alleged to have sold were allowed to "walk" over the border by the authorities........
I'm in NM right now & will be seeing someone tomorrow who might well have a non media line on this particular case.
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44marty
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: Project Gunrunner !!! Reply with quote

NRA-ILA GRASSROOTS ALERT
Vol. 18, No. 49 12/09/11
No Surprises Here--
BATFE Wanted Fast and Furious to Justify Gun Control


Click here to vote in this week's poll.

From the first moment that the American people became aware that senior BATFE officials ordered agents in the field to allow guns sold in the U.S. to be smuggled on an all-but-certain path to Mexico’s vicious drug cartels, many of us have wondered “why.”

What possible legitimate purpose could be fulfilled by allowing a large number of guns—over 2,000, by some estimates—to disappear across our southwestern border without the Mexican government’s knowledge?

There has been only one logical answer possible. Someone within the BATFE or higher in the Department of Justice wanted the smuggled guns to be recovered at crime scenes in Mexico, and traced to sources within the U.S., so that the Obama Administration could claim a need for one or another gun control measure being pushed by anti-gun groups. Someone who values gun control more than the lives of innocent people killed by cartel operatives armed with the BATFE’s “walked” guns. Someone who believes, as one BATFE official put it, that “to make an omelet, you have to break some eggs.”


www.nramedia.org/t/317...45/8066/0/

Holder’s Talking, but What is He Saying? So far, NRA, 52 U.S. Representatives, two U.S. Senators, and multiple GOP Presidential candidates have called on Attorney General Eric Holder to resign because of his role in the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosive’s failed “Operation Fast and Furious.”





GRASSROOTS NEWS MINUTE VIDEO: To view this week’s “Grassroots News Minute” video, please click here:



www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIYkRmi2TjE

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Project Gunrunner !!! Reply with quote

New developments !!!

Cunningham pleads the 5th..... are you Censored kidding me ???

www.washingtontimes.co...ous-probe/

www.examiner.com/conse...-of-holder

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Vince
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:27 am    Post subject: Re: Project Gunrunner !!! Reply with quote

I know your Constitution and it's Amendments is the heart blood of your Nation, but there comes a time when a person who is subpoenaed by the appropriate authorities be compelled to answer any and all questions put to him or her. If he or she elects to not answer, then he or she should be automatically found guilty of an offense and incarcerated until such time as he or she decides to answer. I believe, a person that takes Public Office forfeits the right to the 5th Amendment in the spirit of transparency and honesty...at least until such time as they are no longer in a public position, unless they are called back to answer "questions" in regards to possible illegal activities whilst in Public Office. There should be no "Sundown Clause".

In addition to the above, any official or Politician that deliberately refuses, prevents or prohibits access to another public official, regardless of their position or standing, I believe should immediately be guilty of Perverting The Course of Justice and sentenced appropriately...until such time as they withdraw that injunction.

In Queensland (here) we have what is called the Crime and Misconduct Commission, CMC for short (or as it is jokingly referred to, The Country Music Club), and if a Politician, Police Officer or any other Government official is called forward by the CMC to give evidence, they are compelled to answer any and all questions. Failure to do so is a punishable crime. They are the only authority in this State that has these "coercive hearing" powers.

CMC Powers

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Ominivision1
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Project Gunrunner !!! Reply with quote

The guy pleading the 5th either to save his hind end or his superiors, Issa and Grassley must be getting near something for doj officials to start pleading the 5th. It seems like the whole administration thinks it does not have to follow the law and why should they when the big boss refuses a court order!!

Obama Ignores Court Order

What a smug face that guy has. Confused

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Bushmaster
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Project Gunrunner !!! Reply with quote

The right to plead the 5th is for the soul purpose to place the burden of proof on the prosecutor as it should be. Vince, it is a good amenment and there for a reason. Irritating as it is when used by the alleged guilty. In this country one is innocent until proven guilty and you don't have to incriminate yourself.

It's funny that no one ever noticed his "smug" appearence in the begining.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:47 am    Post subject: Re: Project Gunrunner !!! Reply with quote

Same out here mate...innocent until proven guilty...and I am one that believes better 5 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man is locked up.

I don't doubt that the 5th Amendment is a good thing, but if a person is guilty of doing something, and asking the question "Did you do it?" can bring the truth out, then I see that as a good thing. When asked a question they have the choice of telling the truth or lying, if they tell the truth and say "Yes", then I don't see a problem with them incriminating themselves...the truth has come out...if they lie and say "No" then it is up to the Court to decide the outcome on the grounds of the evidence...which they should be doing regardless. I know that that scenario is pretty simplistic, but that's how I believe it should be.

What I like about the coercive hearing powers is the corrupt public officials cannot just fob things off like seems to be happening over there at the moment... they are compelled to answer the questions. If they choose to lie when answering the questions, well then that is the same as lying in Court... either way, if they are guilty of something then they have to face up to it and accept the responsibility of their actions, or if they have nothing to hide then they have nothing to fear.

Cheers, Vince

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