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HELP NEEDED with cases
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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RPM1031
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Location: College Park, Georgia

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:37 pm    Post subject: HELP NEEDED with cases Reply with quote

I'm trying to get through my first attempt at reloading. I've been working on brass for my Marlin 1895G. The brass was cleaned, etc., expanded the mouth and primed. I'm using RCBS 3pc die plus LEE factory crimp die. Loading WW brass with Rem. 405 JSP, H4198, CCI 200 primers.

My problem is some of the brass expanded TOO much. Read in Lee's book it's not a good idea to expand the brass with the bullet so I expanded the mouth so the bullet would sit deep in the case put a bit short of the C.O.L. of 2.55 that I wanted. This left the mouth end with a fair sized, even bulge at the mouth end. Didn't know extactly how the crimp would work and hoped it would would lessen it.

Started to work on developing a load and found that with nearly half of the brass the bullets fall into the case. The expander die was tight and the nut was secured with a set screw. The expansion on the mouths seems to be the same.

Three things: 1. the amount of the bulge does not look right and makes me nervous. I loaded 5 rounds and tried 1 in the gun (not fired). It did work in the gun with no apparent binding.
2. what to do with the rest. I took out the decapping pin out of the sizing die and tried 2 cases. What do I do now? I have about 130 cases primed. Anything I do to them I'm working with primed cases. Should I resize them with the pin out then expand the mouth less this time? If I am working up a load it seems whatever I do should be done to all of them for consistancy. Now is this safe? It seems as if it should be if the pin is out, I take my time and am careful.
3. is there something I can do without redoing the cases?

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popgun
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Location: Mitchell, GA, U.S.A. (2007 pop. 191)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP NEEDED with cases Reply with quote

If these were new cases they should have been full length sized before the rest of the operation, i.e. belling the case mouth, charging, and seating the bullet.
You can resize by removing the decaping pin. Then bell, charge the case, seat the bullet, then crimp. Try a few rounds and report your progress.
If this is your first time loading let me recomend that you re-read the reloading section of your loading manual. The mind is the second thing to go in my experience and I read one of the manuals on a regular basis to keep the information on top of my head and not filed in a foggy memory. I also recomend that you purchase several reloading manuals. Most have a reloading instruction section and you will find that you pick up a new trick with each manual.
Nuther question: Do you have a buddy that reloads that can sit with you and watch your technique for errors? That always helps when you are starting out in reloading.
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RPM1031
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Location: College Park, Georgia

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: HELP NEEDED with cases Reply with quote

The cases I'm working with have been fired once. They're from factory loads, mostly WW, some Fed. and Rem, that I have used. They are seperated to keep load data properly. So far, I've got the Lee's and Speers manuals plus what RCBS buts out with the press. It is a good idea to keep going through them. I'll go through them again. I kept RCBS's outline in front of me and Lee's within reach while working on the loads after going through mainly Lee's. I also have a few other books, etc. with loads. I've wished many times that I had someone to sit down with while doing this. Until now the only one I had to ask was a friend of my brother that I met who lives down in MD, I'm in NJ. He and I email each other and he's been a great help getting setup.

Resizing worked on the few that I had tried. It seemed that it should be safe. I'll go ahead and resize then expand a few cases again and see how they load. If they seem to come out OK, I'll load up some more and head to the range. Problem there is the range I've used is by Gil, 90 miles from me. Not many ranges in NJ, fewer good ones and some are like D-Day at Normandy. The state has a number of ranges but no center fire rifles are permited.

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popgun
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Location: Mitchell, GA, U.S.A. (2007 pop. 191)

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP NEEDED with cases Reply with quote

Hi Bob,
You should resize your cases on every loading with straight cases. No neck sizing applies to a straight case. Also, when belling the mouth of the case a little goes a long way. It does not have to look like the liberty bell. Just belled enough to start the bullet in the seating process. Keep at it and keep us informed of your results.
Chris
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RPM1031
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP NEEDED with cases Reply with quote

Thanks Chris,
I appreciate the help. I'll let you know how things turn out.

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waumo
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP NEEDED with cases Reply with quote

Sounds like you are getting good advice.

I have the 1895GS and I ran into cases sticking in the die when resizing after a couple of reloadings, especially with heavy jacketed bullet loads. I normally use Hornady One Shot spray lube for FL resizing but it doesn't get it for the 45-70 cases, especially the Nickel plated ones. I went back to my old Lyman lube pad and Lyman case lube with great results. Also I had polished the 45-70 die at one time which made sizing easier. If you notice cases feel like they are sticking when sizing or the sizing operation starts making a screaching sound STOP and try a better lube before it is too late!
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RPM1031
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP NEEDED with cases Reply with quote

I started using the RCBS lube and pad. The cases started to buckle after awhile. Must have used too much lube, cleaned the die but ended up switching to Imperial sizing die wax. Love the stuff, easy to use and clean up.

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sniper
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: HELP NEEDED with cases Reply with quote

RPM: Hey, Welcome. You will like it here!

It sounds to me like you are running the expander die too far into the case mouth.

I am a Nervous Nellie when it comes to reloading. Start from scratch! squirt WD-40 or similar penetrating oil into the mouths of your primed cases, let them set a day or so, to be sure the primers are killed, then using heavy gloves, a couple of heavy jackets buttoned well, face/eye protection, and a few prayers heavenward, carefuly decap 'em all, resize, clean and start again. Be Safe!

Try this: take the expander completely out of where it is. Size your cases, and see how (if) the bullets fit. They should not go into the brass. If they do, your sizer may be too big. Rare, but it can happen.

Your expander should have a radius on the end that goes into the case first, then is expand-to diameter till it flares out near the top. Don't go that far! (Don't ask how I know this!) Trumpet shaped case mouths are not good. Adjust your die so the expander slides into the case just enough to start the bullet well. That works the brass less, and increases case life. (Or at least, that's the theory)

Personally, I haven't used a factory expander for years. It is one more step, but I use a LYMAN "M" die, which is designed for cast bullets. It works well with jacketed, too. The expander shaft just fits the i.d of the brass, and guides the brass to where a small step expands the mouth just enough to hold the bullet. I use 1/16-1/8in. depth, depending on trim, and the bullets go in, and stay till I crimp them.

Oh, woops! One thing. It sounds like you may be using steel dies. Carbide dies are a goodness, and worth the investment. They say no lubrication needed, and you don't, but use just the tiniest bit, if you want really want smooth!
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