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Nosler Balistic Tips in .308
Discussion regarding the reloading of ammunition and tuning of loads for accuracy
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huntingstoneboy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Nosler Balistic Tips in .308 Reply with quote

Now for my second thread. I WILL NEVER SHOOT DEER WITH NOSLER BALISTIC TIPS AGAIN!!! Let me repeat that I WILL NEVER SHOOT DEER WITH NOSLER BALISTIC TIPS AGAIN. I shot a beautiful 3.5 year old 8pt. with my .308 rem 700 bdl at just about 200yrds even. The deer stumbled and ran off. It was just before dark and I had my 14yr old daughter with me. We walked over to the deer after 15 min and heard him thrashing, so I elected to let him lay until morning (I had a good rest and knew he was hit in the front end). Went back the next morning followed the deer for 100yds- had great blood and then it just quit. I searched for two days and could find no deer. 3 weeks later the deer was finally seen being chased by coyotes. The neighbor followed them and harvested the deer with his muzzleloader. He brought him over and we did an autopsy. The nosler bullet struck him a half inch below his heart and did ZERO damage. Pin-holed in and pin-holed out. The wound had surprisingly healed very well, however the deer was in terrible shape due to the rut, coyotes and stress of the shot. Any soft pointed bullet that I have ever used would have mushroomed or fragmentated enough to cleanly kill that deer. I used the same nosler balistic tips in a 25-06 (115gr) to take a doe and the bullet exploded on the shoulder bone and very little penetration was made. I believe these bullets are unreliable and should be used only for punching paper. Wonder if anybody out there has had similar expiriences?
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Elvis
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Nosler Balistic Tips in .308 Reply with quote

had similar results with early balistic tips but I havent used them for years I had heard they had fixed the problems. I guess its the old story of matching the projectile to the job desired. what might be great ta 2500fps is not so good at 3000fps or vice versa. I shot a few deer with them in the late 80s and found that they werent too flash under 75yrds probably going too fast out of the .270 they expanded too fast... mind you though I never lost an animal. try 130grn speer hps in your 08 for mid sized deer they are dinamite.

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:22 am    Post subject: Re: Nosler Balistic Tips in .308 Reply with quote

Are we talking about the .308 green tipped hunting bullets?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: Nosler Ballistic Tips in .308 Reply with quote

I used 150 grain .308 B-Ts for quite a while in my Rem and have never had one not expand. When shot through the lungs the 150 grn in my experience has done very well but shoulder shots can make the bullet come apart. Sorry ya didn't get your deer. I use the Nosler Accubond quite a bit now for my .308. It is just as accurate as the B-T with a bonded jacket.
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slimjim
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: Nosler Balistic Tips in .308 Reply with quote

I've read reports from too many hunters about similar problems with Nosler BTs. I stopped using them because of this. Plus with inconsistent performance I was experiencing with other lead core bullets have switched to using all copper bullets. Barnes are what I'm using now.
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huntingstoneboy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Nosler Balistic Tips in .308 Reply with quote

To answer pumpkinslinger, yes they are the green tip bullets. Truth is I have killed two other deer with the same bullets out of the 308 and they expanded fine. This particular bullet did not expand and acted much like a full metal jacket. Boys I hit the deer's brisket bone, there should have been all kinds of damage. The shot was too low for my liking but it still should have done the job. My brother uses these bullets in his 7mm mag and has shot several deer and the damage is devastating. I am going back to my .280. I've shot several w/ factory Rem coreloks and have always found them reliable. I may try working up a handload with 130gr speer Bt. at +- 3100fps they should due some damage. I used to be concerned with damaging too much meat until I lost this deer. Now I want my deer laying where I shoot them DEAD. If meat is ruined I will have to harvest another. A dead animal makes me happy, a wounded animal makes me sick!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Nosler Balistic Tips in .308 Reply with quote

I had a similiar experience w 130 .277's i had to shoot one twice one was a chest shot from the profile the other from behind i never recovered the chest shot but found the hinnie whistler in his throat. I like sierra's and speers mostly but I do use the partitions and sometimes a hornady if the rifle likes them better. That seemed like alot of penetration to me too. not neccesarily bad just needs another application.

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GroovyJack
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Nosler Balistic Tips in .308 Reply with quote

Never liked them , most stories are the opposite of yours , too much damage ..

Definetly a fine line on matching velocity to the bullet with BT's ..

Only Nosler I like is the Partition ..

I much prefer RN's and other ballistically challenged nose shapes ..

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Nosler Balistic Tips in .308 Reply with quote

I’ve been using B-tips pretty much from the time they hit the market with great success !!!
Never seen nor heard of one not expanding.
Have heard a whole bunch of bad words from those that like to shoulder shoot !!! Shocked


What I do know is way to many hunters have used this bullet incorrectly and blamed the bullet for their own ignorance of proper application.
I personally put the blame on Nosler for not properly confronting the issue when B-Tips started receiving the unjust bad rap.

The first thing about B-Tips you must understand is they are fast expanders not a penetrating design.
Therefore it is imperative to stay off the shoulder.
Second, impact velocity. If your getting exit wounds......you’ve got to much velocity, to heavy of bullet or both.
Think of these pills as varmint bullets for deer, they go in and explode usually dropping deer in their tracks.

Most guys will pick a cartridge and build a load around it for their needs.
To get the best out of the B-Tips, realistically determine your needs first then pick the cartridge to do the job.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Nosler Balistic Tips in .308 Reply with quote

Forgot to ask !!!

What if any data can you give ???
Bullet weight, muzzle velocity, temp, barrel length, etc, etc.

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huntingstoneboy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Nosler Balistic Tips in .308 Reply with quote

Remington 700 BDL = 22" barrel .308, 150gr nos. BT
Alliant RL 15 45.8gr CCI 200 primer
According to my book this should give a muzzle velocity of +- 2950fps out of a 24" barrel, or +- 2850 out of my 22" barrel. Ballistic coeff. of .435 would give a velocity of+-2420fps at 200yrds. These numbers are out of the Nosler and Hornady load books (5ed and 2ed. resp.). I have never chronographed this load but I should. I agree with chambered 221 in that in order for the deer to take all of the energy of the bullet you only want an entry hole and no exit. This was what I was trying to accomplish with this load. This will inevidably lead to the timeless argument of penetration vs. disruption on critters and whether or not you want one hole or two. I must argue that I feel you can not have enough velocity. This is why my brother has no problems using these bullets out of his 7 mag. The bullet is traveling so fast that there is all kinds of disruption. Hell I've seen entry holes you could drive a train through,(shoulder shots). The deer didn't go far. Like I stated before I have had these bullets work.Apparently 2420fps was too slow for this nosler bullet to expand properly. I will stick to my original argument, I WILL NEVER SHOOT DEER WITH NOSLER BALLISTIC TIPS AGAIN. There are guys out there that use sierras matchkings on game and claim they work great. Sierra "does not recommend them for hunting applications". Its stated in there load book, because they give unreliable results. I feel nosler BT's fall in this same category.
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huntingstoneboy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Nosler Balistic Tips in .308 Reply with quote

I do realize I am being a little critical of nosler. I understand the difficulties in designing a bullet that works well on both bone and meat and, does its job at both fast and slow speeds. People have been searching for this "magic bullet" for years. Unfortunately, for nosler their ballistic tip is not it. And unfortunately for me I had to discover this on a nice deer. One I had been watching all summer and hunting for all fall. This animal deserved a better death than what was bestowed on him. No more BT's for me!
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longwalker
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Nosler Balistic Tips in .308 Reply with quote

My experience with fast small bullets is probably similar to most peoples. They work just fine. However after many deer and antelope using a 25-06 I found I really wanted that second hole to let blood run out of two places. I hadn't lost any deer but sometimes following the scant blood trail was disappointing.

My solution was to go the complete opposite direction larger caliber and slower speed. Expansion is not as great but the game does not seem to notice. They just don't live long enough. 200 and 225 grain bullets below 2700 ft/sec seal the deal for me. An other plus much less blood shot meat.

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chambered221
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: Nosler Balistic Tips in .308 Reply with quote

An opinion that I have formed over the years might be worth noting here !!!

It’s my believe that B-Tips will not do the damage that most expect when bone, heart, or lungs are missed. I wouldn’t necessarily call them pin holes but they seem to travel through with limited collateral damage. Hitting the heart and lungs (mostly made up of water content) seems to give the bullet the media in which it was designed to work the best in. I have seen more than just a few deer that were hit with B-Tips without catching the vitals and almost every time a small exit wound was present. I however have never seen a deer take a direct hit to the heart or lungs with one and pass through when the weight and speed of the bullet is correctly matched.



It’s my opinion that had you hit the heart on your deer there would have been a completely different outcome.
I also believe that one must have confidence in his equipment and B-Tips don’t do it for you so by all means do what you got to do.
I just wish you would have had a better understanding of them before using them.


As far as my exit wound statement; that’s my opinion based upon talking with the guys at Nosler in regards to the B-Tip. Most other bullets I would prefer and expect an exit wound.

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