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What may gone wrong drastically????
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:08 pm    Post subject: What may gone wrong drastically???? Reply with quote

My 300 Whisper used to group at less than 1.5 inch in 200 meters.
usually the holes touches at 100 meters
and on 50 meters, well, sometimes you see only one ragged hole.

Now, I have many misfortune with this gun.
- Viz Trying to Cerakote and it flakes off, I fix that by parkerizing
- Just a few months ago, I have a squib load and the bullet stuck in the barrel, fixed that too.. without apparent mark on the barrel (bore scoped using an endoscope).

Since that episode, I have shoot the rifle once and it seems to retain the accuracy at the time (around October 08 I think).

Now, the fact is that I have a few guns that I regularly shoot at the range.
I select my guns on rotational basis and last weekend, it is the turn for me to use the Whisper again.

DISASTER!!! Sad

My usual load (either new loads or the leftover loads from the last loadings) just cannot retain any grouping at all..
In fact, it gets so bad that I have a 5 inch spread on the target wtf

I did not change the load recipes,
The muzzle of the barrel looks the same (no damage)
The scope is at its usual position (loctited screws)
The temperature of the day is the same
The stock (fully free floated definitely do not touch the barrel)
My trigger finger is ok - I think.. (I hope)
The bench rest is exactly the same (the range have concrete benches now and I no longer using an ironing board)

So.. what gone wrong?????????
Question Question Question Question Bonk Misc

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Pumpkinslinger
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:59 am    Post subject: Re: What may gone wrong drastically???? Reply with quote

When you had the stuck bullet what did you remove/disassemble to fix it? I'd start by checking that. I also wonder if the stuck bullet left a deposit of fouling, but I'd think that the bore scope would have seen that.

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Vince
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:55 am    Post subject: Re: What may gone wrong drastically???? Reply with quote

Gelan...in addition to what Punkin has said...have you given any consideration to the possibility of a bulge in the barrel?

The bulge might be so small as to be unnoticeable, but large enough to upset your bullet as it passes by. This may well cause the bullet to leave some extra fouling behind which in turn makes matters worse for following bullets.

I hope that I am wrong mate, cause that would mean a new barrel, but it does happen.

Then of course there is the "loose nut" possibility....the one pulling the trigger. Very Happy Very Happy

Cheers, Vince

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Morax
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:21 am    Post subject: Re: What may gone wrong drastically???? Reply with quote

go with the cheaper things first.. the scope screws may be tight but what about the scope itself internally could have crapped out on you... what about the mounts themselves could be beat up enough to where its loosened a bit...
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sniper
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: What may gone wrong drastically???? Reply with quote

Gelan: Frustrting , isn't it? Did you fire another bullet or three after the one that stuck? If so, I'd say that a bulged barrel is a real possibility. We shooters and handloaders don't give nearly enough attention to the fact that we are dealing with very high, potentially dangerous pressures!

Start cheap and simple, though, as was suggested.

How long has it been since you reloaded the ammo in question? Some time ago, I read about a man who had exactly your problem...his groups all of a sudden went to "shotgun". He tried all the usual things, scope, rings, mounts, bedding, etc., all to no avail.

Then he started to look at his handloaded ammo. It had been loaded a year+ before. He theorized that the two different metals...brass and bullet jacket...had created some sort of electrolysis between them, and fused together.

He set up his press, and tightened the seating die about .001 in. , just enough to "break" the bond, and reported the accuracy returned to what he had experienced before.

I truly hope you don't have a bulged barrel. But, let us know what happens. Good luck!
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shrpshtrjoe
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: What may gone wrong drastically???? Reply with quote

Is it possible the scope took a hit when trying to get the stuck bullet out ?
Joe

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: What may gone wrong drastically???? Reply with quote

I did shot the gun AFTER the stuck bullet..
The group is OK at the time..
I am shooting some leftover cartridges loaded back then and some new reloads I did last week.
BOTH loads gives shotgun pattern!!

I am sure about my triggering method - I tried the gun belong to a guy who shoots .222 next to me. I am sure it is not my triggering.

I pulled out some of the loads I had, 5 out of 5 they are exactly the same as what I used before.

I am taking these two in consideration right now..

1. Scope problem - maybe the scope were knocked on transport - How do you check this?

2. Barrel Bulge - I am going to slug the barrel with a leadball to see if it bulged.
Will try the slugging tonight.

Could the barrel change dimension in 3 months?
Could it be little imperfection that happen after a few months?

Finger crossed!!

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Dawgdad
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: What may gone wrong drastically???? Reply with quote

Since you say it grouped well soon after the stuck bullet incident my money is on the scope to a dump theory. If you have another good scope or even iron sights on the gun try that. I am not sure how it happens or what mechanically can be done for it but I have seen scopes that "slip" on recoil hold for a few shots then slip back again. Nothing evident looking at the cross hairs like a wire hanging off but no matter what I shot I would get multiple groups. Changed out the scope and voila! One point of impact again!

Clean it very well, retighten the action to proper torque, mount a different scope and shoot . Cheaper than a new barrel if it works Very Happy

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stovepipe
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: What may gone wrong drastically???? Reply with quote

Switch ammo, and scope, or use sights......and try another shooter.

Another POV behind the reticle is sometimes VERY helpful.

Eliminate all variables. Even the shooter!
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hunterjoe21
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:58 pm    Post subject: Re: What may gone wrong drastically???? Reply with quote

stovepipe wrote:
Switch ammo, and scope, or use sights......and try another shooter.

Another POV behind the reticle is sometimes VERY helpful.

Eliminate all variables. Even the shooter!

That was my suggestion...

Try switching the nuts...

Let someone of "known" ability shoot it....

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:26 pm    Post subject: Re: What may gone wrong drastically???? Reply with quote

Well, here is what I found out:

- Slugging the bore using lead fishing sinker - the bore is nice and even - there is not pressure points or relieve along the barrel (thus I could conclude that the bore is ok, no bulges and no scratches)

- Scope, - This MAY be the fault. The read focusing ocular ring were a bit loose at the time I inspect the kit. I notice that when it is loose, the cross hair could move a tad..
I said it MAY be the fault because at the time of shooting, I usually tighten/check all the optics. I may miss that last week..???

- Last possible error.. A certain Queenslander came and bring a lot of moisture to NSW in the past month. I notice that my cheap walnut stock looks to wrap to the right a tad and just (maybe not) touching the barrel..
Humm.. Got to blame some one..

Oh well..
Didn't shoot any last weekend, being Australian day and Chinese new year and all, I was commissioned by "She Who Must Be Obeyed" to work on the garden..

Planning to try again this coming weekend.

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A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

Do - Not try!


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Vince
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: What may gone wrong drastically???? Reply with quote

Gelan the Unimaginable wrote:
- Last possible error.. A certain Queenslander came and bring a lot of moisture to NSW in the past month. I notice that my cheap walnut stock looks to wrap to the right a tad and just (maybe not) touching the barrel.. Humm.. Got to blame some one..

Shocked Sad Crying or Very sad I'm sorry mate....I didn't mean to buckle ya butt.

If its any consolation, we are up to our armpits in humidity and rain up here now.

Cheers, Vince

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Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

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gelandangan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:08 am    Post subject: Re: What may gone wrong drastically???? Reply with quote

Very Happy
maybe you aught to visit Melbourne or Adelaide - Vince..
They sure could use some rain.. being over 40C for the past 4 days Very Happy

For years we are asking for water.. being in drought and all ..
Now that we got them, we complain bitterly about them..
Us hoomans are definitely hard to please eh!

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A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
A smile is the shortest distance between two people.

The government I trust .. is my .45-70 Government.

Do - Not try!


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Vince
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:22 am    Post subject: Re: What may gone wrong drastically???? Reply with quote

Yeppers....you are right mate...nothing ever seems to satisfy us.

Cheers, Vince

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Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
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A17Shooter
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:28 am    Post subject: Re: What may gone wrong drastically???? Reply with quote

gelandangan,

Good luck with that whisper. Think the other members have covered most of the regular problems. The discussion reminds me that I have uninvestigated problems with a rifle that I need to check out.

later,

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