HuntingNut
HuntingNut
   Login or Register
HomeCommunity ForumsPhoto AlbumsRegister
     
 

User Info

Welcome Anonymous


Membership:
Latest: barcoo59
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 1
Overall: 12598

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 108
BOT: 2
Total: 110
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Forums
03: Forums
04: Forums
05: Forums
06: Forums
07: Forums
08: Forums
09: Forums
10: Forums
11: Forums
12: Forums
13: Forums
14: Forums
15: Forums
16: Forums
17: Forums
18: Forums
19: Forums
20: Forums
21: Forums
22: Forums
23: Forums
24: Forums
25: Forums
26: Forums
27: Forums
28: Forums
29: Forums
30: Forums
31: Forums
32: Forums
33: Forums
34: Forums
35: Forums
36: Forums
37: Forums
38: Forums
39: Forums
40: Your Account
41: Forums
42: Forums
43: Forums
44: Forums
45: Forums
46: Forums
47: Forums
48: Forums
49: Forums
50: Forums
51: Forums
52: Forums
53: Forums
54: Photo Albums
55: Forums
56: Forums
57: Forums
58: Forums
59: Forums
60: Forums
61: Forums
62: Forums
63: Forums
64: Forums
65: Forums
66: Forums
67: Home
68: Home
69: Forums
70: Your Account
71: Forums
72: Forums
73: Forums
74: Forums
75: Forums
76: Forums
77: Forums
78: Forums
79: Forums
80: Forums
81: Forums
82: Forums
83: Forums
84: Forums
85: Photo Albums
86: Forums
87: Forums
88: Forums
89: Forums
90: Forums
91: Forums
92: Forums
93: Forums
94: Photo Albums
95: Forums
96: Forums
97: Forums
98: Forums
99: Forums
100: Forums
101: Forums
102: Forums
103: Forums
104: Forums
105: Forums
106: Forums
107: Forums
108: Home
  BOT:
01: Forums
02: Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
 

Coppermine Stats
Photo Albums
 Albums: 305
 Pictures: 2360
  · Views: 393436
  · Votes: 1309
  · Comments: 86
 

Support our Advertisers

Barrel contact with stock and accuracy
Discussions related to Guns and Firearms
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
lesterg3
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 30, 2008
Posts: 1327
Location: Dixie

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:16 pm    Post subject: Barrel contact with stock and accuracy Reply with quote

OK guys, be gentle with me on this. Shocked I have looked at posting history and have not seen anything about this, so if I missed it I apologize.

I have a Rem 700 7MM Mag that is not very consistent in grouping.

I have tried two different scopes that have preformed well on other rifles, and have gone through the standard checklist of tightening screws and so on. Have cleaned and cleaned and cleaned. Mad

The bore on the barrel looks great.

I am not using hand loads yet, but constantly use Rem Core-Lokt ammo, 150 gr PSP.

One thing I have noticed is that the barrel is in contact with the stock, what I mean here is that I cannot get a piece of cigarette wrapper cellophane between the barrel and the stock.

I don't have anything thinner to try with.

From what I have read barrels should be free from contact with the stock,

True? False?

If this is true, what do you suggest I do? Confused

Can I just sand down the barrel relief on the stock, or is it more complicated?

What is the best thing to do, I would like to keep this rifle, but expect more from it than it's giving me. Mad

I purchased this rifle used, and am having a love hate relationship with it right now.

One other thing, if I do indeed need to rework the stock's barrel cavity, would it be a good idea to refinish the stock at the same time, any suggestions?

_________________
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. "--Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. -- Thomas Jefferson

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."--James Madison

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.

NRA Life Member
Vietnam War Vet 68-69
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SingleShotLover
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 971
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Barrel contact with stock and accuracy Reply with quote

Barrels that are free-floated will shoot better than those that are not...maybe.

I know that is an ambiguous answer, but the facts are that some rifles like contact and others don't. Before floating your barrel, look to make sure that there is no uneven pressure anywhere along the channel and the action is properly bedded. Sometimes manufacturer's finishes are thin and allow the grain to raise in these places causing contact that bears unevenly along the barrel. This can also be a major cause of accuracy problems.

The best way for you to find out if your barrel will benefit from floating is to place a thin layer of cardboard (squares of business card work great) between the stock and the action right at the recoil lug area. Use just enough to allow a sheet of typing paper to pass freely between the barrel and the barrel channel. Make absolutely sure that there is sufficient clearance between the bolt body and the rear of the bolt cutout in the stock to keep the bolt from contacting the stock in this area upon firing (this will almost certainly cause a split in this area and since the grain is likely running the length of the stock, it will knock a generous amount of the stock loose). Now try your rifle.

If this works, carefully sanding the barrel channel to allow for the same barrel clearance will free-float your barrel. If you choose to do this, try maintaining contact for the first couple of inches forward of the recoil lug. Some rifles like this and if yours doesn't, it is easy to just remove material in that area too. Just be sure to seal the channel with stock oil or a good "spar" varnish to prevent the grain from raising with humidity and causing you problems later.

If you are going to do this work it would seem to be an ideal opportunity to refinish the stock at the same time if you plan to anyway.

Good luck and keep us posted as to your results.

_________________
If you can't hit it with one, you probably can't with two either!

The biggest problem with a closed mind is that it never seems to come with a closed mouth.

SSL


Last edited by SingleShotLover on Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Gil Martin
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 1665
Location: Schnecksville, PA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Barrel contact with stock and accuracy Reply with quote

It depends whether free-floating a barrel channel will help a rifle shoot better. All of my bolt action hunting rifles have been floated and they shoot great. I have known cases where free floating did not help, but that was rare. So it depends. My suggestion would be to try it and if it does not work, then glass bed the action or some other option. All the best...
Gil

_________________
Gil
Back to top
View user's profile
shrpshtrjoe
Super Red Neck Member
Super Red Neck Member


Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 2955
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Barrel contact with stock and accuracy Reply with quote

Gil Martin wrote:
It depends whether free-floating a barrel channel will help a rifle shoot better. All of my bolt action hunting rifles have been floated and they shoot great. I have known cases where free floating did not help, but that was rare. So it depends. My suggestion would be to try it and if it does not work, then glass bed the action or some other option. All the best...
Gil

+1 on what Gil said. You said the rifle does not shoot consistent groups ?. Does it just not group well or are the groups eratic.
Joe

_________________
"MOLON LABE"

P E T A
People Eating Tasty Animals
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
wncchester
Member
Member


Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Barrel contact with stock and accuracy Reply with quote

"One thing I have noticed is that the barrel is in contact with the stock, what I mean here is that I cannot get a piece of cigarette wrapper cellophane between the barrel and the stock.... From what I have read barrels should be free from contact with the stock,.."

Barrels should alway be floated. Part of the time! Wink Some work better floated, some don't. Only way to tell is try both, no shortcuts here.

What is ALWAYS BAD is loose or random contact and it appers that you have it. The usual admonition to slid a dollar under the barrel to check fo free-floating is silly. That's only .003" and ANY stock will bend that much according to how it's rested/held. To be floated requres that the gap is sufficent that there is no contact with differenct holds, hard and soft, etc.

Seal any raw wood under the inletting to reduce water absorbtion and resulting warping. The exposed end grain is like a sponge for water. Don't neglict sealing the checkering, stock screw holes, sling swivel holes and under the butt plate and its screws.

A small can of MInwax Marine Polyurethane can be found at Walmart, it's inexpensive, tough, both oil and water proof. I use at least four coats of lightly thinned poly as a stock sealer. Appy the first coat heavy but wipe away any surface excess after it soaks for maybe five minutes. The rest of the coats should be quite thin. Use an old toothbrush to clean finish out of the checlering after each coat there.
Back to top
View user's profile
Pumpkinslinger
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 4479
Location: NC foothills

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Barrel contact with stock and accuracy Reply with quote

Free floating barrels can work well on heavy barrels, like varmint rifles. I tried it on two sporter weight barrels; a Ruger 77/.22 Hornet and a Win 70 Classic Featherwieght in .280. Both rifles went to he... err, heck. Both started shooting better as I added some pieces of card stock back to the barrel groove about 1" back from the end of the fore end. At this point both rifles still have the card stock in there until I have time to do it right and glass bed a contact point in the fore end.

_________________
Mike

"I ain't no better than anyone else, and there ain't no one better than me!" Ma Kettle

Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 13563
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Barrel contact with stock and accuracy Reply with quote

Lester...the guys have covered in good detail the idea of floating your barrel.

Gil mentioned bedding the action. This never hurts and can only help...even if you don't float the barrel.

One thing that has not been mentioned is the mounting bolts. Check to see that they have been tightened in the correct order...makes one helluva difference on my Weatherby Vanguard...and that they are torqued to the correct tension. The correct tension, more than anything, can make a big difference to accuracy.

How do I know this? Two boxes of ammo trying to zero my .243 before my mate suggested checking the mount bolts. Mad Mad Laughing Of course one was tight, but not to the tension required, and I had tightened them in the wrong order as well.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Barrel contact with stock and accuracy Reply with quote

Factory Remingtons should be free floated with a single point a couple of inches from the end of the stock with contact with the barrel.

Lightweight sporter barrels will preform nicely with a 5-10 pound pressure caused by a build up of stock in a point to keep the whole barrel from wanting to vibrate when being shot.

Perhaps it was done improperly. But this is the reason Remington's have a "reputation" for out of the box accuracy for many years as they figured out a way to get lightweight barrels to shoot unlike other companies at the time.

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 13563
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:26 am    Post subject: Re: Barrel contact with stock and accuracy Reply with quote

I think you will find that there are a number of US designed rifles the same 'Mitri.

From memory I believe the Weatherby is one of those...well certainly the Vanguard anyway.

Lester, before you do anything else mate...I would be checking the mounting bolts, tightening them in the correct order and to the correct tension. You may have to check with Remington or consult the Owners Handbook for this info.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
K.W.
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Mar 19, 2007
Posts: 348
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:31 am    Post subject: Re: Barrel contact with stock and accuracy Reply with quote

Like Dimitri´s Remington, my Remington 700 .30-06 Wood stock has also press point. It is good thing. Aiming to the same point at 150 meters bullets 125 and 220gr holes are only in the 2-3" groups.
Mayby somebody understand my bad language, what I am meaning? Shocked Sad Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile
Vince
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 13563
Location: Brisbane AUSTRALIA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:43 am    Post subject: Re: Barrel contact with stock and accuracy Reply with quote

Hi Kauko....you are meaning that you have had too much Juleøl or mjød or maybe akevitt. Laughing Laughing

Seriously though mate, your English is ok...it makes sense and is understood.

Cheers, Vince

_________________
Cheers, Vince Cheers

Illegitimi non carborundum
(Never let the bastards grind you down)

Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God.

"Nulla Si Fa Senza Volonta."
(Without Commitment, Nothing Gets Done)
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address MSN Messenger Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
chambered221
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 3455
Location: Lost for good !!!

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:51 am    Post subject: Re: Barrel contact with stock and accuracy Reply with quote

I’m in agreement with everyone else here !!!

The only thing that has not been clearly established is where the contact is ???
I’m assuming that your talking about a pressure point that was put in from the factory.

Pressure points in lightweight barrels are good things most of the time. But stock/barrel contact in the wrong area is bad.
The pressure point that D and others speak of is a cheap fix ( that does work ) to get a barrels harmonics to resonate on a more consistent pattern and allow them to come to a rest at the same spot. Hopefully !!!

Better quality barrels are less likely to need this trick.

_________________
Ask as many people needed, sooner or later your question will be answered the way you want it answered !!!

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
~George Washington
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
shootist
Member
Member


Joined: Dec 30, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: Lackawaxen,PA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Barrel contact with stock and accuracy Reply with quote

Based on my experience...rifles that have difficulty grouping reasonably well have bedding problems. But here's what I would check:
1. Check the target for any signs of keyholing.
2. Check the muzzle's crown carefully using a magnifier.
3. Loosen action screws and check the stock/action for rocking.
4. Inspect the tang area of the stock for gouging.
5. Shim the front of the action to reduce or eliminate the front pressure point and range test again. Measure the amount of pressure point bump,for historical record.
6. Snug up front action screw to just firm, tap stock's butt on soft surface and snug up the front then the rear screws to torque specs or firm.
If necessary, disassemble and check every pressure/bedding point for unusual or deep compression....best suggestion is to pillar bed /glass the action /free-float the barrel.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dimitri
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 5906

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: Barrel contact with stock and accuracy Reply with quote

Vince wrote:
I think you will find that there are a number of US designed rifles the same 'Mitri.

Yup I am sure almost any manufacturer now does it. However I have been told repeatedly by sources I trust that Remington was the first hence why I mentioned them. Smile

Dimitri

_________________
A thousand hills, but no birds in flight, ten thousand paths, with no people's tracks. A lonely boat, a straw-hatted old man, fishing alone in the cold river snow.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
TRBLSHTR
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 1051
Location: Lower 48's-left coast(near portlandia)

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Barrel contact with stock and accuracy Reply with quote

Surprised Ihave been following this thread for a while now ,and after having done more that 50(fifty)bedding and free floating jobs on various bolt actions of all manufacture,and some(other than bolt action)I want to know if any of the "gunsmiths" here have actually fired these guns in a rapid fire game hunting type of grouping?Lets say 5 shots in 10 seconds!What I have found in the past with these factory guns with the forend in contact with the barrel and positive pressure is that the first round will always go where it is aimed,but subsequent shots fired in a short time frame will generally go higher than the point of aim.This is due to the fact that the barrel has upwared pressure on it by the stock contact and that the heating of the barrel from the quickly repeated shots tend to make the barrel deflect in the direction that the pressure on the stock is pushing.I have had rugers,remingtons,weatherby's,winchester(mod 70's),mausers,and savages that all had the forearm pushing against the barrel and after completely free floating the barrel and glass bedding the action and the chamber area found that these guns would actually group in rapid fire hunting type scenarios,on paper!These guns for the most part have all been light wieght tapered barrel sporter models. The only situation that I have found that if a gun would not group after free floating and glass bedding would not group (with the right load)is when the barrel has been damaged from the factory,or from sombody having a hunting mishap and replacing the stock only to find out that they bent or "dented" the barrel.At that point simply replace the barrel.....my nickels worth! Laughing

_________________
"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." Thomas Mann
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index » Gun & Firearm Discussions
Page 1 of 6
All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Advertisements
 


Valid CSS! Valid HTML 4.01!
Click to check if this page is realy HTML 4.01 compliant for speed :)

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of HuntingNut.com.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2011 by HuntingNut.com
Interactive software released under GNU GPL, Code Credits, Privacy Policy

.: Upgraded to DragonFly 9.2 by Dizfunkshunal :.